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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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 Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:23 am Post subject: Found something very sweet 944 S2 |
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 Hi guys. I was looking thru e bay lately for some 944 brake/clutch/gearbox parts which could be up for sale.as advised by some of you guys and i came across some real nice stuff including a real good condition 1989 944 S2, it wasnt on auction but as a classified and was advertised at a reasonable price. item number 130374662585. in my opinion a beauty. It has the S2 3litre engine 210bhp and a nice top speed of 150mph I kind of purchased it. Its situated in the UK so I will be picking it up by late next week. I took a chance putting a 'best offer' on it and this morning found out that I was the winning buyer, doing some research on the engine, some say its the best 924/944 engine ever, anyone have any knowledge of this. I can send some pics to anyone who can post them for me here. This car is definetly gonna be raced.
thanks
dreamgts
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:31 am Post subject: Re: Found something very sweet 944 S2 |
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| dreamgts wrote: | Hi guys. I was looking thru e bay lately for some 944 brake/clutch/gearbox parts which could be up for sale.as advised by some of you guys and i came across some real nice stuff including a real good condition 1989 944 S2, it wasnt on auction but as a classified and was advertised at a reasonable price. item number 130374662585. in my opinion a beauty. It has the S2 3litre engine 210bhp and a nice top speed of 150mph I kind of purchased it. Its situated in the UK so I will be picking it up by late next week. I took a chance putting a 'best offer' on it and this morning found out that I was the winning buyer, doing some research on the engine, some say its the best 924/944 engine ever, anyone have any knowledge of this. I can send some pics to anyone who can post them for me here. This car is definetly gonna be raced.
thanks
dreamgts |
I love the S2. My friend had one for 10 years before taking it to another level (see GTR pic thread). The engine was trouble free the entire time and real tractable and fun to drive. The best mod we ever did was to install a lightweight clutch/flywheel setup and a 968 6-speed. It felt like it woke it up! You could lay down rubber by accident after that mod
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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emoore924
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2822
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:37 am Post subject: |
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IIRC they have troubles with the cam chain adjustors/tensioners in the head. They crack/fail. Something to check now and watch carefully. If they fail, and they do, the repairs can be significant.
There's a pretty knowledgable group over at pelican that can help you out.
Nice find BTW |
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924RACR
Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 9081
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Fun stuff! One of my friends/crewmembers has an S2, a '90 IIRC... we've been reworking the whole car, over time... started with a clutch job... then track springs and shocks... then some broken valve springs started a head job, which turned into a full rebuild... then most recently, we replaced some shot rubber bushings in the rear, as well as balljoints (rennbay kit)...
Don't misunderstand, though; this is his track car as well as summer driver, and he drives it hard, and it has needed the work... I don't think they're all like that. Still tempted about the idea of picking one up someday...
V
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Vaughan Scott
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ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| 924RACR wrote: | Fun stuff! One of my friends/crewmembers has an S2, a '90 IIRC... we've been reworking the whole car, over time... started with a clutch job... then track springs and shocks... then some broken valve springs started a head job, which turned into a full rebuild... then most recently, we replaced some shot rubber bushings in the rear, as well as balljoints (rennbay kit)...
Don't misunderstand, though; this is his track car as well as summer driver, and he drives it hard, and it has needed the work... I don't think they're all like that. Still tempted about the idea of picking one up someday...
V |
Yes 924RACR I think I recently read about your exploits on Rennlist? Balance shaft problems IIRC? Good read. 
Congratulations, I think you made a wise choice. The car looks sweet(externally). |
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924RACR
Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 9081
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah - balance shaft timing was only the last of the tricks... didn't surprise me, someone put the pulleys on wrong (wasn't me!!!)...
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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| emoore924 wrote: | IIRC they have troubles with the cam chain adjustors/tensioners in the head. They crack/fail. Something to check now and watch carefully. If they fail, and they do, the repairs can be significant.
There's a pretty knowledgable group over at pelican that can help you out.
Nice find BTW |
Hi. yes I know about this problem. It seems that the cam chains rest on a plastic type 'ramp'. It seems they crack and fail as you said. Should this happen the head, valves etc is a goner. Specs say that this should be replaced every 60,000 kms, some say more. First thing I will replace is this ramp and the timing belt no matter what the service history says. Although its first run will be from Essex to Malta thru Europe probably next week , thats 1760 kms ,I will have to take it easy on my way down untill its seen to.
I intend to turn the car into a track car though and giving it priority over the 924 for now since I would like to enter it in a 'Once A Year' Event held in Malta beginning of May.
Specs also say that the engine has some tech from the 80's TAG formula 1 engines, cooling system etc. It wont cover much miles since it wont be driven on the road at all except in competion, so care to the plastic ramp chain tensioner will be given priority when servicing, after a race, etc, probably be replaced every few thousand miles anyway.
I like the front of the vehicle a lot and it seems different to other 944's. Im sure with some attention the engine wont give any serious problems, Im very very aware about servicing engines, any engine in fact.
I will try to put some pics on my website of the car when its here, I cant just get myself to chop it up for parts for the 924, Im sure you would agree with me when the pics are up,also put some pics of the 924 which suddenly seems to be less important for the moment. But will not be abandoned for sure.
If you guys know of any other problems this car model has I would be glad to know about them.
Thanks
dreamgts
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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:30 am Post subject: |
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The tensioner kit plus belts cost around $500 from ZIMS Autotechnik, I guess a good investment, I wonder if the 924 engine fits to the 944 S2 rear components. I could go wild on the turbo setup if the 944 engine blows if the tensioner gives way. This possible?? Although I dont want this to happen just a thought though. instaedof fitting 944 stuff to the 924 i guess it can be done vice versa... can it?
dreamgts
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ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If you guys know of any other problems this car model has I would be glad to know |
Valve spring failure. I've talked too a few guys that have exierenced valves droping and punching holes in pistons. I have a 944S motor that suffered this fate also. It can actually be worse then tensioner failure as it will take out the bottom end too. The valve will snap when the piston hits it, not only punching a hole in the piston... it seems to lodge itself sideways in the port destroying the head in the process.
These motors should run ultra smoothe and quiet. You will hear the injectors click and the cam chain slideing over the plastic pads (ramps). It's really all about oil pressure, when you fit your new pads expect to have to apply a lot of force to compress the tensioner (to the point where the chain wil hurt your hand as you push own on it) This is a good sign that sufficient oil pressure is present at the tensioner.
I'm currently working with an engine that had no top pad left at all, the chain had eaten into the tensioner itself! But no detectable permanent damage has been found yet. Obviously the tensioner was destroyed and due to the chain slackness it took 8 teeth off the exhaust cam but luckily the chain didn't (bite) the tensioner and rip it out of the head....It must of been within minutes from meltdown but survived. I replaced the damaged parts but like a fool, I left the lifters in place (duh). Now it has lifter clatter which might or might not of been present before (who knows due to the chain noise). But noisy tappets on these motors can make you hear (or fear rod knock ect). Any lifter noise gets amplified by the intake manifold so its very hard pinpoint the exact source. Just a lil' caveat but an illustration of how robust these engines can be. Or at least how robust the "weakest link can be" |
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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:03 am Post subject: |
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I dont think that all 944S motors are the same as the S2 actually. The S2 is a 3lit 16 valve, the S is a 2.5lit 8 valve with a few 2.7 lit having 16valves also. What year and engine cc is it? It seems though that the tensioner pads fail if not properly seen too, although anything can happen to any engine at anytime, i dont think that Porsche would design an engine knowing that the driver would be doing so in fear that the whole upper valve train would blow. Otherwise they would have advertised the car as some sort of thrill to those who enjoyed engine failure or drive it by 'Tow Truck'.
Have still to see and try the car anyway if im not satisfied with what i see or hear... well... who knows.
Thanks
dreamgts
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ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:12 am Post subject: |
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No, the 944S Is just a 2.5 16v motor which shares exactly the same head configuration as the 3litre S2. Most, if not all valve train parts are interchangable. S becomes S2...the 2.7 relates to the S2 not the S. Its the 104mm bore size.
Its a learning curve for you I guess but all the info is out there...
Well you shouldn't be thinking of pulling out of a deal based on what if's. Just take my advise (or seek other opinion) about what to listen for. I don't know what you paid for the car but the S2 with the declared engine noise (the one I just described) cost me £1600. A bargain in my eyes. |
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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ic932 wrote: | No, the 944S Is just a 2.5 16v motor which shares exactly the same head configuration as the 3litre S2. Most, if not all valve train parts are interchangable. S becomes S2...the 2.7 relates to the S2 not the S. Its the 104mm bore size.
Its a learning curve for you I guess but all the info is out there...
Well you shouldn't be thinking of pulling out of a deal based on what if's. Just take my advise (or seek other opinion) about what to listen for. I don't know what you paid for the car but the S2 with the declared engine noise (the one I just described) cost me £1600. A bargain in my eyes. |
Hi again, as far as I know the 944 lux, S, Turbo and Turbo S up to 1988 all had 2.5 lit engines, some early models had 8 valve engines while others (probably mid 1985) had the 16 valve head. The 2.7 litre S was introduced in early 1989 just before Porsche released the S2 3 lit. According to porsche only the 1989 models mentioned had the same engine ( I have the engine serial number somewhere) before this year the 944 had either 2.5 lit 8 valve engines (early models) or the same engine but with a 16valve head if I remember correctly this cylinder head update happened in mid 1985 where other upgrades such as oval dashboard, brakes etc took place as well.
I am sure that pre 1989 944 models did not have the same engine as the S2 or the 2.7 S. I believe that the 2.5 lit Turbo S with a 16 valve head had 247BHP while the S2 944 3lit model had 218 BHP.
i think I got it right.
dreamgts
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2 PORSCHE 924 (CURRENT PROJECTS)
2 CLASSIC CORTINAS (FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT(FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT 132 2000CC(JUST PURCHASED)
4 SUV'S
2 SEDANS
1 OPEL PANEL VAN
WIFES SUZUKI ALTO |
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ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes thats right, in 89' a new 104mm block was introduced hence the 2.7 8v and 3lt. 16v. Two different engines that shared the same 104mm block. |
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924RACR
Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 9081
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ic932 wrote: |
Valve spring failure. I've talked too a few guys that have exierenced valves droping and punching holes in pistons. I have a 944S motor that suffered this fate also. It can actually be worse then tensioner failure as it will take out the bottom end too. |
Wow, are you shitting me? We had 3 broken springs in Erik's head when we took it apart - after not that many miles!!  Of course, that's still 3 out of what, 32? But still creepy.
Thankfully there was no piston or valve damage; OTOH, we ended up having to replace the pistons anyway due to skirt/bore wear. Also re-honed the cylinders.
Had the replacement pistons made at Diamond; they did a fantastic job, and can make ones for anyone else in need for a much better price than JE. They also made the pistons for Chris's 924 racecar, also beautiful...
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'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
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ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I won't be totally confident in my engines until I fit new valve springs!
Interesting point about the skirt/bore wear. Exhaust side by any chance? I pulled a motor apart last summer and the all 4 pistons had lost their coatings and the rings were like razors lol. Cylinder 4 was badly damaged too. Head, bearings and crank were still mint so it would lead me to believe that these iron coatings might fail before they should? |
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