924Board.org

Scorpio · Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: Injector options??

Just upgrading to EFI whilst turning a NA into a turbo.

Dont have much idea on what injectors ill need to fit one of endwrenchs fuel rails...
I think my megasquirt 1 has the flyback board so can run low impedance(although its impossible to know off ebay whther theyre high or low impedance) will have to check with macb
Looking around 200hp so im guessing 400cc injectors?
Length of injectors etc??

any help appreciated...new territory for me

_________________
1979 NA
MS1..EFI..
GARRETT T25 TURBO
BILSTEIN SHOCKS
GT BASED CUSTOM BODYKIT

Brisbane , Australia
Think mean think fast
all youll see is
my Porsches Arse!!!

flosho · Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject:

I run Ford Green Tops, they are 42# injectors, high impedence, and come in SVO Mustangs.
_________________
[This Space For Rent]

haroldk · Joined: 24 Nov 2008 Posts: 171 Location: St Paul, MN, USA

Min · Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject:

If your target horsepower is 200, looks like you will require about 29.4 pounds/hour which is 309 cc's, but since your doing it turbocharged, you need to add 10 percent approximately, so, thats 339.9 cc's, since you will probably not be satisfied with 200hp, you should have a bit of extra room for improvement, so, I'd recommend a set of 440cc bosch greentops which happen to be exactly what flosho also recommended, they are high impedance which simplifies tuning, and should be more than adequate. You can run them at a lower pressure initially if you like, so, something like 30 psi instead of 43.5, which will bring their flow down to 366cc/min so, they are about perfect.

here is a video of them being tested, so you can see what they look like and their spray pattern. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U01xCk6k-_Y

here is a set on evilbay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bosch-42-lb-Pound-Fuel-Injectors-set-of-4-EV1-440cc_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33553QQihZ015QQitemZ250383967726QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

so, standard bosch 'ev1' injectors are what your looking for. I believe they have 14mm o-rings.
_________________
Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.

tuurbo · Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject:

Scorpio · Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject:

thanks guys...

any more than 200hp will start to break things ....mainly my first and second gears

how are these ? all off mitsubishi eclipse turbo
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Eclipse-Talon-Stock-450cc-Black-Top-Fuel-Injectors-4g63_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a1Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem370189151481QQitemZ370189151481QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DSM-550cc-fuel-injectors-Eclipse-Talon-Mitsubishi-Honda_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a1Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem360146766730QQitemZ360146766730QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

are they same size as the bosch ev1's? im guessing that a 14mm o ring can be just popped onto a injector with the smaller ring...same inner diameter?
_________________
1979 NA
MS1..EFI..
GARRETT T25 TURBO
BILSTEIN SHOCKS
GT BASED CUSTOM BODYKIT

Brisbane , Australia
Think mean think fast
all youll see is
my Porsches Arse!!!

RC · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 2637 Location: Australia

Personally am sus about buying S/H items like injectors unless you know their history and/or have them cleaned and flowed. If one is not up to scratch you run the real risk of a melted piston.

Agree with what others have said about selecting a Bosch EVI TYPE/SIZE injector, 14mm, especially if you are running Endwrench`s rail. 42 Lbs is a good choice, gives a little leeway and you only want to aim for a 80% duty cycle. Will add however that even if your MS is running the Lo Z flyback circuit, it is a better decision these days to use Hi Z injectors. Less current means less heat, more reliability and easier to tune.

Modern ball and disc type injectors will permit lower duty cycles and result in a smoother and easy to tune idle, for the same maximum flow rate, as compared to the green tops which IIRC are older pintle style. They also will not atomize the fuel as well as modern disc and multi orifice types. Running less than the designed fuel pressure to reduce flow is a bad idea as atomization will suffer at all duty cycles. May be able to tune around that slightly with X-tau, (if running it) but a waste of time for little benefit IMO.

There is some injector data in our links section here, and also here:
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

These are what I`m currently running. Good for idle, power and credit card.
http://www.racetronix.com/17113813.html

Min · Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:30 am Post subject:

flosho · Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:47 am Post subject:

This is what I have:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/42-Injectors-Green-Top-Ford-Racing-SVO-M-9593-F302_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQhashZitem350167560089QQitemZ350167560089QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
_________________
[This Space For Rent]

haroldk · Joined: 24 Nov 2008 Posts: 171 Location: St Paul, MN, USA

flosho · Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:41 pm Post subject:

Interesting... I know if you search for Ford 42 lb/hr "green tops" thats what you will get..

In any regard, they have worked well for me!
_________________
[This Space For Rent]

haroldk · Joined: 24 Nov 2008 Posts: 171 Location: St Paul, MN, USA

Raceboy · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2327 Location: Estonia, Europe

It all depends on the price but if you are going to turbocharge the car and are a bit serious about it, I'd buy new Siemens Deka or Bosch EV12 pencil style injectors as these provide MUCh better atomization, control and precision over old EV1 style injectors.
They don't cost arm and leg either, brand new 630cc Dekas cost only around 60usd a piece.
_________________
'83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S, sold
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold

'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche

fiat22turbo · Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 4040 Location: Portland, OR

I would make friends with your local injector refurbishment store.

http://www.afi-australia.com.au/ <---don't know if they are any good, check them out thoroughly before spending your hard earned cash with them.

If you were here in the US, I would suggest Chrysler FWD Turbo cars from the eighties and nineties.

Here is an injector P/N cross reference for some of the Bosch injectors used on the Turbo-Dodge cars:

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_fuel.html

Also some others:

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/fuelsystem/injflow.html

http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Injector-Flows/A_0102/article.html

http://vwmod.com/fuel.php

Either way, you'll want to have the injectors cleaned and inspected before putting them in your car. Otherwise you might have to make extensive repairs to the engine due to improper fueling.
_________________
Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose)

haroldk · Joined: 24 Nov 2008 Posts: 171 Location: St Paul, MN, USA

For the US guys, I just heard back from my Ford Parts guy. The injectors Flosho has are available from Ford in sets of 8 only and were stock on the '99-'04 Lightning. They've got a bunch more listed here. All of them are high-Z and sold in sets of 8. I can actually get them for a lot cheaper, so I'll probably be going that route when I do an EFI swap and then selling the other 4.