924Board.org

[Matt Norton]

I have had my 1987 924S for about a year now. I had the timing belt and all that done shortly after getting
it. I still have yet to go back for a tension check. was going to do it and the Porsche tech that did the job
quit leaving the dealer with out any Porsche techs. I also had some other problems with them so I wasn't
to happy with the idea of taking it back to them. They had the car for a whole month waiting on parts and
other stuff. Anyway on to the real issue here.

The car starts up perfectly every time and usually runs a little ruff until it warms up depending on the
weather. when the temp is in the thirty's out side it will start up and warm right up without anything
unusual. But if I start it on a day when its like 40-60 out it starts up ok but then goes into this phase of
rattling or like a slight pining knocking sound but more towards a rattling sound from the front top of the
engine. It will also sometimes do this after warming up and sitting and restarting it. It doesn't last long
and once warmed up the car perrs like a wild cat. Runs great, nice and smooth. I have read that sometimes
there is a problem with cam shaft bearing #2 but I would think that would cause worse sounds. Could it be
a timing issue? it will drive fine with out any loss of power during the rattling cycle so I am kind of
thinking it is worn or stickle lifters. Any one else have this issue and is it bad? Like I said it doesn't last
long and the car drives great.
_________________
Red 1987 924S with plans for D Productions Kit
From American International Racing.

[Paul]

What's your oil pressure when it's rattling?
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

[Matt Norton]

Oil presure is always good and strong. Only time it ever drops is on a hot day sittining in trafic. I turn the aux fan via A/C and step on the gas a little bit and it goes back to normal.
_________________
Red 1987 924S with plans for D Productions Kit
From American International Racing.

[Matt Norton]

I have isolated the sound. It seams to be coming from the camshaft timing gear housing located behind the
distributor. the sound is sporadic and goes away once the temp gage hits right above the first little block.
oil pressure may drop to 4.5 for a bit but bounces back up to 5. if my foot is on the gas it stays at 5
_________________
Red 1987 924S with plans for D Productions Kit
From American International Racing.

[dgz924s]

Lifter issue. May go away after a good drive as it needs primed in a sense. If not it could need a new cam follower/lifter. May have a broken spring as well, inners are known to break. Open up one of the round cam cover/caps and pour some oil on top of the lifter may help free it up.

Dal
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Dal Glassinger

[Matt Norton]

I did some searching over at pelican parts. It sound like the timing belt has stretched a little and when the
engine is cold it is slapping the cam gear cover a little bit. Once the engine warms up things expand and
proper tension returnes. I just need to get it tighten up. It is an 87 so I believe it has an auto tensioner and
doesn't need the special tool. Is it just a matter of loosening a screw and letting the tensioner readjust and
then tightening it back up?
_________________
Red 1987 924S with plans for D Productions Kit
From American International Racing.

[Dynamite76]

[dgz924s]

The tensioner is preset to help get the belt back to close but not at tension needed per the belt age. You need to check and adjust the belt tensions before you run the engine again. Get a gauge and check per the specs. Be sure the tensioner pulley has the flat flange toward the block, if not this can cause the belt to wander or worse fall off.

Do the adjustments when the engine is at room temp, do not run the engine the day of the tensioning.

Make sure the rear belt cover plate is fully towards the block/ warpage.

If the chatter is when cold the belt is at its tightest and loosens when warm so your thought process on that is reversed.
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Dal Glassinger

[Matt Norton]

Besides the genuine Porsche tension gauge what else do I need? Factory timing belt adjustment tool? do I need the calibration bar? I am looking at pelicanparts. They also list flywheel lock, a balance shaft gauge, and a balance shaft locking bar.
I am thinking about taking my resource and info to a local trusted mechanic and oversining the work kinda learining it toghter. With Porsche shops hours away and getting screwed by one I realy need to get a long term solution as I plan to keep the car for some time.
_________________
Red 1987 924S with plans for D Productions Kit
From American International Racing.

[gohim]

The long term solution to the maintenance problem and expensive would be to buy the correct tools and do the work yourself. You what an experienced Porsche Mechanic will charge in labor to do the front of engine service, you could buy the proper tools for the job, including the P9201, and it's calibration bar.

If you have not done this operation before, and you do not tension belts by feel on a regular basis, I recommend buying the P9201 belt tension gauge and the required calibration bar.

A loose belt sounds more like slapping a piece of plastic by snapping a towel rapidly. For your timing belt to be slapping the timing cover, it must be dangerous loose. Early 944s had a problem with loose belts slapping the timing cover, and shredding themselves. As a result, Porsche issued a TSB, and changed the timing covers on production models to remove protrusions projecting on the inside of the belt covers that were believed to be damaging the belts when they were too loose.

A tinny or metallic rapping noise is most probably one or more flat lifters (lifters that have deflated after leaking down the motor oil that fills them while the engine is off). Crud collects inside of lifters when the motor oil is not changed on schedule, and this crud prevents the proper operation of the lifter. Sometimes a motor oil flush can help remove this crud, and sometimes a switch to regular oil changes with a high quality motor oil will flush the crud from inside the lifters without mechanical intervention. Most times you will end up replacing the offending/noisy lifter/s.

The cam tower assembly must be removed (and the timing belt removed to get the cam tower assembly off). So the best time to do this is during a front of engine service when the belts are going to be off anyway.

The auto belt tensioner is not meant to be used as the sole means of setting the timing belt tension. You still need the belt tension gauge to set the balance shaft belt tension in any case. The auto belt tensioner is not a dynamic belt tensioner. What you are supposed to do is loosen the bolts that lock the tensioner in place, and the tensioner pulley bolt, to allow the spring to tension the timing belt. Then you tighten the tensioner pulley, and the belt tensioner bolts so they cannot move. Then you use the P9201 belt tension gauge to measure the tension on the timing belt to make sure that it is tight enough. If it is not, you loosen the belt tensioner pulley and tighten the timing belt manually. You also have the choice of loosening the securing bolts on the belt tensioner and the belt tensioner pulley, and giving it another chance.

[Matt Norton]

I definitely want the genuine gauge whether I do it or a mechanic does it. I am not so much concerned
with paying for it to be done as I am having someone I can trust not to screw me over locally that I can
have do it regularly.

The sound is definitely coming form inside the timing gear housing at the top. I thought it was lifters or a
bearing but it is defiantly not in the cam case.

It is time for the belts to get recheck as the front engine was done last summer and I have put several
thousand miles on it since then.

again the sound goes away once the car is warmed up and doesn’t happen at all usually when started in
30 degree weather or in hot weather. It is a rattling like sound that is speratic.
_________________
Red 1987 924S with plans for D Productions Kit
From American International Racing.

[Paul]

Pop the covers and have a look....
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

[Matt Norton]

“pop the cover and take a look “he says. that was easier said than done. I could have saved my self some
time and gone with my assumption or asked for a little advice. I got all the bolts out only to discover the
cover doesn’t come fully off with out removing the outside belts. I was able to pop it open enough to
confirm that yes indeed there is enough slack to slap the bottom casing guide going up to the timing gear.
I don’t think it is Enough to jump a tooth yet but it will need tightened. Now what? Put back to gather
and drive it to the nearest garage? I have looked at the directions for doing the tightening and it looks
fairly simple once you get the engine jacked up to where you can easy work on it. ah? how do you do
that? should I try to get the Spring to tighten the belt so it is closer to where it should be before driving it
to a garage? If I do that I might as well finish the job.

on an interesting note Discovered a squall must have thought my air filter was a great place to store up
food for the winter. I opened up the box and discovered bird seed on top of the filter. luckily it didn’t tare
it up and get seed anywhere else. I put dryer sheets in the engine compartment to keep out the mice. I
guess it doesn’t work for squalls. One must have sneaked in when the kids had the garage open to get out
the sleds. I think I will put a piece of screen and a pipe clamp to the air filter box air intake. that should
keep them out.
_________________
Red 1987 924S with plans for D Productions Kit
From American International Racing.

[dgz924s]

2 options...Get the tools needed and retension or hit a valve or 2 and create a whole new thread here. If the belt is that loose DO NOT start it up! You are lucky as it is don't press your luck any further. Now having said that you can get a cheap version of the gauge at NAPA called a KRIKIT or see Bruce Arne.....www.arnworx.com

He has a cheap version of the needed tools.....but....only to get you to a shop with the tension close if you MUST drive it but as is don't. I would hire a guy w/a trailer to take it to a shop.

Dal
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Dal Glassinger

[Matt Norton]

If I have the money shouldn't I get the genuen Gauge? or is it easer to do it with the after market kit. I thought evey one here says get the porsche gauge.
_________________
Red 1987 924S with plans for D Productions Kit
From American International Racing.