924Board.org

[FASTdan]

Hi Guys,

Ok so i finally got round to investigating my new non-running purchase ('86 924S).

First finding....hmmm something missing here:



Fuel pump relay. Can anyone give me details on this component so i can order one? part no? identifying marks? type? as obviously i dont have one to match up to.
Would I be right in thinking this relay also switches power to the ECU? so without it there would be no voltage to the coil?

Secondly, the balance shaft belt is worn as its rubbing against this:



Im guessing it shouldnt be - but the question is what is that component? and why is it interfering with the belt?

Third, another random 'roller' looking object that seems to be doing nothing:



As above, what is it? and should it be doing something its not? doesnt appear to rotate?

Finally, random outlet on the water pump with no pipe attached - should there be?:



All help much appreciated, cheers

Dan
_________________
1980 924LUX

[alexvex]

As for the waterpump...mine is like that too as I just replaced mine. That's actually probably a good sign as the waterpump has probably been changed. The nozzle is a block off plate for the 951. If you have a 951, then you just drill out the nozzle to go to the cool the turbo. As for N/A 944/924S, then you just leave it like it is.
_________________
--Alex--
1992 Porsche 968 (VW 2.5L I5 Turbo swap in the works)
1995 Audi 90 Quattro Sport (4.2L V8 Swap)
2010 Touareg TDI
Past Pcars: 80 931, 87 924S, 87 951

[FASTdan]

[timstar92404]

wow, that timing belt / balance belt area looks scarey to me. the balance belt teeth definately shouldn't be that worn down, thost belts will definately fail pretty fast if you run it like that.


I would replace all rollers/ belts and tension them properly before running it. It looks like you have the updated pump by looking at the block of plate, so that smaller roller is the wrong roller for your water pump, that is why it is not touching hte belt. The correct roller is larger and will touch the belt You will probably have to also replace all the oil seals behind the belts or else your new belts and rollers are going to be all greasy and oily and that will wreck your new belts.
_________________
78 924 sold.
85.5 944

[FASTdan]

Thanks for the replys chaps.

I actually think the cam belt looks fine obviously i WILL replace it but its not at all damaged and looks like its hardly been used. Of course the balance belt is fooked but whats the worst that would happen if this failed? Engine goes out of balance?

I would like to get it started as it is then i know its a runner before I start messing with the timing belts etc?

So what seals do you replace when doing this front end service? Crank shaft? Balance shafts?

Whats this about an upgraded water pump? and how do I source the larger roller? Whats the point to it, as its on the tension side of the belt - just to stop any bouncing? Is there a part number? Or is it a 951 part?

thanks for all the help and sorry for all the questions!
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1980 924LUX

[Hoboceratops]

I'll play gohim here for a sec.

Tow it to a dealership / porsche shop and have the front engine service.

Also, that roller that has ruined your balance shaft belt is the idler roller... but it doesn't look right at all, as if it's either a completely wrong part or it's somehow been worn down a ton.

Yeah... Unless it's going to be a project car and you're a whiz mechanic, I'd say take it to a shop.
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1987 924S: Very much in love with it, even if it's all finnicky

[Tello65]

the small roller ist from the 944S2, the silencer underneath the automatic
camshaft tensioner. the correct one for your car should be a black plastic one.
better get all of it replaced before you even try to start that thing

[FASTdan]

[Paul]

Alrighty then...I'd replace everything that touches the belts based on those pictures.

And the oil seals. Might as well reseal the oil cooler...

Have you seen this?

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/eng-06.htm

http://www.clarks-garage.com/
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

[Paul]

Here's one source, you will need almost everything that has timing belt or balance shaft in the description plus the water pump and oil seals.

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/group.aspx?sid=vq13qp45ukdh222b0vmk3nis&makeid=800019@Porsche&modelid=1263316@924%20S&year=1987&cid=20@Engine%20Parts,%20Seals%20%26%20Gaskets
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.

[gohim]

If you are looking at your 924S strictly from a financial angle, you might as well dump it right now. You will never get back the money that you are going to pay to get repair the existing damage, and catch up on maintenance. Maintaining a 924S or 944 in good running condition costs an average of $800-$1000 a year when you take into consideration the cost of incidental repairs, scheduled maintenance, and a reserve fund to cost the 3-year or 36K mile front of engine service.

I have no doubt that the car is in need of additional parts and repairs based on the condition of the engine from the photos that you posted.

The parts to perform the front of engine service will cost you $600-$1000 from an aftermarket source, depending on who you buy them from, and whether you go for a new or rebuilt genuine or generic water pump. You also need to spend between $200 and $700 (depending on whether you go with genuine tools or decide to take your chances with the generic substitutes) for special tools that will only be used on a watercooled Porsche. If you end up taking the car to an authorized Porsche Dealer, the cost of front of engine service and the oil cooler seal replacement is going to be in excess of $2000 with parts and labor. Parts are priced considerably lower here in the U.S. and you should investigate purchasing them in the US and having them shipped to you. BUT if you don;t already know it, the cost of shipping to foreign countries from the US can be extremely expensive.

The reason that your car is in the condition that it currently is in is that the PO (Previous Owner) either could not or chose not to perform the necessary services properly to keep the car in decent condition. You, are (unfortunately) going to pay the price of the PO's actions.

[FASTdan]

I'd say im looking at this 924S 80% from a financial angle and 20% from an enjoyment point of view. I only bought it because of its price tag really, that and the fact I've had a normal 924 and decided I'd like the next model up.

The last one was purchased for £470, I sunk £400 into it (engine rebuild) and returned £1100. That gave me 3 months enjoyable (although sh*t slow lol) motoring and a decent profit for my efforts.
Maybe this one wont work out like that (yes i know this one has a REAL porsche engine lol), but hey its all good fun. I have a source for parts who is at the top of the supply chain (ie he sells to parts stores so gives me them at their absolute base cost) so that helps.

Thanks very much for those links Paul, they look excellent! And thanks to everyone else for the advice. I'll shortly be posting a new subject regarding the lack of power to the fuel pump

I'll start looking into the parts i need for that front of engine service this week.....
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1980 924LUX

[FASTdan]

A small update.

Having checked through the serive history I have discovered that infact the water pump, timing belt tensioner and both belts were replaced within the last 10k miles (I thought the cam belt looked in good condition!). So hopefully all I will be replacing is the smaller rollers, seals and belts .
_________________
1980 924LUX

[gohim]

You need to realize that time, as well as miles is an indicator of when the "front of engine service" should be performed.

If the belts and waterpump were changed 5 years ago, even though they have only accumulated 10K miles since, they would still be due for replacement now, based on time.

I am sure that since you have been checking old post on this Board that you are aware that when the belt, if one belt fails, the other is also tossed off as a result, and that when they get old, they have a tendency to strip teeth (and jump timing as a result).

The result of such an occurance is usually atleast four bent valves (@ $75-$100 a valve for parts) best case, and worst case, a valve head breaks off and wedges in the cylinder, damaging or cracking the cylinder (requiring a replacement engine block to repair).

To replace the front of engine oil seals, you are going to have to remove the belts anyway. So why re-install an old belt with a short service life?

[FASTdan]