924Board.org

[Mikri184]

I have a late 76 early 77 car i Am pulling the motor for a motor I have from an 81. Have header cam and carbs. P&P on the heads, Have turbo head gasket, COnsidering a cooper one. Suspension has all good oem joints will upgrade the front and rear shocks not sure would be best yet? I also want to get a set of autocross springs to bring the car down an incha nd ahalf and will do the same in the back. And have front and rear sway bars. I realize I can't do much for my set up, the thing is Is that the car has the fiberglass 944 conversion on it and thought it would make a nice racer. So what can I get away with and what can I not to race in PCA events, I am joining the PCA this month and will apply for my racers lisence so I can start the drivers training and so forth but would like to know what I can do with my car to have fun. Thanks!!!

[924RACR]

DON'T REMOVE ANY OF THE INTERIOR!!!!

If you do, PCA will put you in the GT classes! I think the fiberglass will put you in the Prepared classes. You need to review the Club Racing rules at:
http://www.pca.org/pca/clubrace/docs/forms.htm

You ought to upgrade to the 5-lug brakes, if they're not already there. Sounds like you've got a decent idea with what to do to the motor, pending review of the rules. As for suspension, the main points are to get enough spring under the car (autox springs are nowhere near enough for proper racing) by using the standard front coilover conversion kit with bigger torsion bars or coilovers in the rear. Don't get too happy with swaybars, they can create problems if used to excess. Shocks are key, and street Konis are NOT good enough. Tried 'em, and trashed 'em. I'm using Bilstein race shocks/struts now; whatever you do, get real race shocks. Finally, bushings. Ideal is to spend the $1300 or so for the Racer's Edge full spherical bearing conversion. Doesn't all apply to your car, though, since you've got the early suspension.

Retrofitting the later style spring plates (which are adjustable for ride height) to your car would be ideal, but requires a bandsaw and some courage to cut up perfectly good 944 parts. BTDT.

At any rate, at least replace all that nice stock rubber (JUNK!) with delrin or poly/plastic type bushings. The front-end is key here. These are stock VW Rabbit/Golf a-arms, so the $50 Neuspeed bushing set will work! Then you just need to replace the upper strut mounts (large pieces of rubber) with camber plates (spherical bearing) to eliminate the flex there.

Then your little 924 will handle as well as it accelerates!

Save up for a 5-speed too, and put in a diff. Makes a huge help on-track.
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[Mikri184]

Hi, I do have a complete early 944 set up coming and I have late 944 componets to choose from I also have either the 79 snail 5 speed trannie to use or tan early 944 trannie I can use, I also have a 951 trannie but that is for the another race car. Which I don't want to get into right now stock piling parts for now for that one. I thought Of using the wltmiester bushings that Performacne products sells in my front end, But thought since mine were good they would be fine, so I need to keep the carpet, that is very important, I appreciate that info most of all, What about roll bar/cage and race seats? Are we talking full interior, all panels and everything? I am not conerned with it but want to make sure I am following you. I read over the rules and even printed them and have read them a couple of times but not failiar, I thought I should clarify , I appreciate the help any additional info will be much appreciated, I will try and get some photos soon. Also this will be my learning car there is another car that will take longer to build that will be alittle more serious. Also what strut inserts doyou suggest? Thanks

[924RACR]

Ha ha!!! Don't buy retail! Don't go to Perf. Products for performance parts, too expensive. Check out my build page for links to the places to go for the best buys. For chassis, go to 944Racing.com and Paragon Products:
http://www.vaughanscott.com/construction.htm

Like those Weltmeister bushings - you can pay less for the equivalent product elsewhere.

Don't use the snailshell, use the 944 5-speed instead. Easier/cheaper to rebuild, find parts for, find a limited-slip or Quaife diff for, etc. Mine, being a '79, came with the snailshell, but too expensive/impossible to rebuild, so I switched to the 944 type trans. You will need the 944 torque tube and shift linkage to do the conversion. Jeremy Jadczak is also using this setup.

For the interior - yes, everything! You would do well to get in touch personally with the members of your PCA region, and find people who're racing the 944 in the Stock classes. They will be able to help you out immeasurably.

The seats and belts are about the only thing you can change out for race equipment (and should, of course!).

As for struts - personally, I love these Bilsteins. However, they wouldn't be a strut insert, but a complete replacement of the strut tube. Still, a bolt-in swap. Here's what I've posted about them:
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=6162

For the rears, you can see pics of them on the first link above, just scroll down to the suspension section. They're gorgeous. You would probably want to get them with a threaded body to do the coilover action - slight additional cost.

If you want a strut insert, not replacement, you'd probably have to go with a Koni insert; talk to Jason at Paragon about your options.

These true race shocks (trust me, street shocks are NOT able to handle the high spring rates we run for any length of time, both Jeremy and I have run the Koni yellows and destroyed them) are a huge step forward and a helluva improvement. Sure, they cost a little more (maybe 100-200 each more) than Konis, but you'll save money in the long run not replacing them every year! Bilsteins are a monotube shock/strut, same technology as a full-on Penske race shock (at about $1000 each). Not adjustable, but shocks are not where you need your adjustability on a real race car (at this point) - just another thing to get wrong.
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[Mikri184]

Well sent my membership app this morning for the local and PCA so hope to be in touch with someone racing 924/944 locally and maybe I'll get some help. I am still alittle confused about the racing class. With my current set up the 944 conversion full interior, modified motor. Am I still concidered stock? Will I be forced to make other mods just to be competitive? I am looking into your race set on the suspension. Kind of spendy but when you consider buying the inserts and springs to the price is about the same. I am looking into the sites you suggested triing to find the parts, Alot of the sites don't even list 924 as an option so would I just use the 944 stuff? and one other thing, know there are good replacemtn bushings and stuff, but what about the ball joints? are the stock ones good enough? Thanks again!!

[924RACR]

No, with the motor mods and such it wouldn't be considered stock. This is where you really need to talk with other PCA Club Racers to find out exactly where you'd be. See, problem is, while yes I do race a 924, and can give the model-specific advice, I don't race with PCA, and so can't advise on items relevant to their rules.

The suspension components, for the most part, are the same as the early (83-85) 944. The main difference will be the way your torsion bar housing bolts to the body. 944's have it isolated with rubber; yours is hard mounted. Hey, less solid mounts and spherical bearings to buy! The brakes also, but you'll want to upgrade to the 5-lug brakes anyway, and it's a bolt-on conversion.

You'll be running stock balljoints and tie rod ends, yes.

The main things are (other than shocks) are the front coilver kit, which allows the use of 2.5" race springs and gives you an adjustable spring perch to adjust ride height, and the rear coilover shocks (which, through the inclusion of race springs, will increase the spring rate to match the front race springs).

Spring selection is part art, part personalization. Talk to Jason at Paragon, he'll be able to help suggest an initial setup. For example, the stock 924 front springs are about 110-120lbs/in. The "autocross" springs are around 200-250#. My front race springs are 400#, and I'd really like to be running around 600#. The reason I don't run more is because I'd have to buy larger torsion bars for the rear (to match), and revalve the shocks. May do this someday. You're allowed to run the coilover springs in the rear in PCA (I'm not, in my race class), and so could run 600# up front (and whatever Jason recommends for the rear to match). Then just have the shock valving matched to those spring rates and your corner weights.

If you were to go with Bilsteins, you can call Bilstein Motorsports and have them recommend valving settings for you car; just tell them what your corner weights are and what springs and torsion bars you plan to use. That's what I did, and I've been very happy with the results so far!
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[TMB-Racing]

Hey, Michael

You are not going to want to prep a car for PCA events here in WA because we don't have any races here! (Used to be one in Portland) Your options are to run Conference as I mentioned-sorry I didn't send you the website sooner: Icscc.com or SCCA. You can run in ITA or a GT class or we even have a vintage group the car would be eligible in in SCCA. There is a PCA and BMW run group but these are full of very fast ITS 944's and microsoft GT-2 911's that are more suitable for American Lemans than SCCA racing. I don't think you want to do the 944 project unless you really build a 944 engine etc..Check out the conference production rules and email me with questions-You would be better off with one of the other 924's you have in your shop. That Scca vintage grid would be the other way to go I think. I can not stress enough the advantage of running a year of autocross or lapping day's before road racing. We are lucky here in our part of the US to have a very active racing scene- take advantage before surrounding yourself with 40 other cars at 120 mph. Good luck, Andrew

PS: The Wltmeister race bushings for the front are no longer recommended for race use-they disintegrate-and I can attest to that!
Thanks for the Nuespeed tip Vaughn-Never thought of it!
_________________
1 of 100 Sebring M471's ( G-prod racecar)
1977.5 GTU (Autocross/hillclimb car) 2006, 2007 ITB lap record holder-Larison rock Hillclimb

If speed kills, why am I still alive?

[Mikri184]

Hi Andrew Lost your email, You know how organzied my shop is. LOL
Thanks for the advice, I sure could use your help in this. Knowing you are already actively involved. Do you think The conversion car would make a good autocrosser at least to learn, which has been my plan? To start just as you suggested. I thought going through the pca drivers training was the plan for getting involved, in this am I wrong. I am going to look at that website. And see If I can figure it out. Seems to be alot of grey area in mods and things, in the pca rule book.
I was thinking of taking that 82 n/a and Stuffing the 86 944 motor and 951 tranny I have in it. as well as the complete 944 braking system.Or do you think I would be better to run the 82 931. Makes no difference, just want to be competitive. and have fun. I have so much at my disposal and am getting new stuff as well. That I just want to start and get involved. And do something? I want something to happen by spring at least which is the my date of completion for the conversion car. Anyways Thanks ofr the help in pointing me in the direction that will get me doing something. It was you that convinced me I should, Thanks!!!!