924Board.org

[Dan924S]

1987 924S, Black on Black, 120k, chip, cam, no Cat. Con., K&N, just bought it. Fun to drive but needs love, badly.

#1 I have a broken worm gear in my sunroof. Should I pay to have that replaced or learn to live with it? I.E. is that really expensive?

#2 My turn signals and side markers are broken. The bulbs are fine. Is that a relay or a fuse and are they the same relay or fuse?

#3 My horn works intermitently. I took checked the relay and noticed it works if you push the contacts together. Do I need a new relay or is the problem in the steering column.

#4 I tried to fix my reverse lights and unwittingly discovered that the fuse is the same one that controls the rear wiper that I thought was broken. The wiper went wild, the reverse lights came on and then the fuse blew. How do I fix a short? Is it a short? Am I screwed? When it comes to stewed prunes are 2 enough, 3 too many?

Any advice would be much appreciated and would probably make my car safer. Whats a multimeter? Should I buy one and learn to love it? Dan

[Dan924S]

thanks for all the responses

[speedsta2003]

you from Lincoln? I guess not
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[924RACR]

Sorry, don't usually stop in here, since I don't have a 924S.

Performance Products shows a replacement (plastic) gear for the sunroof for $8.95.

I would expect the side markers and turn signals to be on the same fuse, not relay. Sure, check the fuses - it's the easiest, simplest thing to do. OTOH, you may have to get out your circuit diagrams and learn to become one with your multimeter.

re: the horn. Which contacts are you referring to? Presumably if dicking with them makes it work, then you have a poor contact, and need to clean them or tighten the connection.

Not sure about the prunes, but definitely sounds like you have a funky circuit there. Clean grounds, learn to love your multimeter. Let me put it this way - a multimeter is a $20+ tool that can save you $200+ worth of stupid and unnecessary repairs.

Enjoy.
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[gohim]

Sounds like your new car is definitely needs a little TLC.

And it sounds like you are not very experienced with cars, or Porsche 94 engined cars in particular. I suggest that you immediately purchase and read the original owners manual that Porsche supplied with these cars when new. It will answer some of the questions that you are raising here.

The Internet is a great source for information, but will never replace the owner's and Service Manuals for your car, which you should have at home. The Porsche Factory Workshop Service Manual is the best service information source, but it is also the most expensive, you need the version of a late 944. About $40-$50 on microfiche from a Porsche Dealer, or eBay, or in print (again the late 944 version, about $100-$175, used on eBay, or about $250-$350 from a Porsche Dealer.

The factory service manual has the best electrical circuit diagrams. The aftermarket service manuals usually have older copies of the factory diagrams, are are poorly reproduced, and harder to read.

While fixing electrical problems is not that hard, you need to buy a DMM (digital multi meter), or VOM (volt ohm meter), and learn to use it.

The problems that you have already discovered should not be that hard to fix, understand that these are irritating problems, but that the fixes should be very simple when you have the information avaible in the circuit diagrams, and a meter to trace down the probems.

#1 Turnsignal blinking is controlled by a "flasher relay". The side markers and front marker lights are powered by a fuse, and don't go through a relay. Are you saying that the turnsignals don't blink, and the side markers don't light up, or that the front markers don't light, the side markers don't light up, and the turnsignals don't light up? If the front markers, and side markers don't light up, I would start by checking the fuses (the Owners Manual, or a Service Manual would tell you which fuse does what). Even if a fuse looks good, power may not pass through it if the contacts on each end are corroded, or tarnished. You could try rotating/turing each fuse in it's location (even if it looks good).

The car is 15 years old, and it is possible that the "flasher relay" has gone bad, or that the turnsignal switch is bad. A replacement flasher relay should be less than $15, and a replacement turnsignal switch will be $40 or less.

#2 The horn. You say that you tested the horn relay, and when you pressed the contacted together, the horn sounds? Does that mean that you figured out which relay on the relay plate is the horn relay, and removed the cover to press the contacts together? If you did, you have tested to power circuit to the horn, from the relay. The relay could have a defective coil (the part of the relay that caused the relay contacts to move when it gets power from the horn switch on the steering wheel). You could have a defective horn relay, or a bad horn switch, or bad contact (old, hardened, grease) on the steering wheel horn ring which is preventing electrical contact between the horn switch and the rest of the electrical dircuit for the horn and horn relay.

#3 Reverse lights and rear wiper. The wires for these components are routed together from the fuse panel, along the left frame rail to the rear of the car. They are not supposed to be electrically connected after the fues panel. If replacing the fuse for the reverse lights makes the rear wiper go (and the rear wiper switch is off), then I would guess that the wiring for the reverse lights and rear wiper are damaged, and have become "shorted" together. The most likely place for this to happen is at the left side of the driver's door where the wiring harness for these components travels under/next to the dorr scuff plate. The scuff plate has metal clips that hold it on the door sill, and one of these clips could have worn through the insulation on the wires, or been pressed through the wiring insulation.

More improtant than these small problems is the overall maintenance condition of the car. It sounds like the car may not have received the scheduled maintenance necessary to prevent damage due to sudden failure of normally replaced components to the engine.

The "front of engine service" is critical to the heath of the engine, and must be performed every 30K miles or three years. Failure to have this service preformed on time will lead to extensive engine damage and expensive engine repairs, or cause damage so extensive that engine replacement is required.

The Porsche 944/924S engine is what is call an "interference engine". The valves and the pistons will make contact, if anything keeps the valves from closing when the pistons travel upward to full stroke during the compression or exhaust cycles. The valves are moved by the camshaft which is driven by a rubber belt off of the crankshaft. The rubber belt deteriorates from environmental conditions, age, and chemicals.

The labor to replace the belts is extensive, and expensive. Figure on $500-$1000. When the belts are replaced, the replacement of the other parts under the timing cover, which could cause the failure of the timing belt is recommened. This would include the balance shaft belt, front of engine oil seals, timing and balance shaft belt rollers, and pulleys, and the water pump. All of these other parts should cost less than $500, the failure of any of them will cost you a timing belt, a cylinder head, and/or the engine short block. Replacing any of these parts would cost the same amount as replacing the timing belt, but when replacing the timing place doesn't cost you anything extra (except for the replacement of the oil seals which is critical).

If you did not get written proof that these parts have been replaced in less than 3 years or 30K miles, this service need to be done immediately, not next week, and not next month. The other problems that you have noticed, can be cured easily and cheaply. The engine maintenance cannot wait.

Some special tools are required to tension the timing and balance shaft belts after they are replaced. The cost of these tools is about $500. If you are not ready to buy the tools now, and the car needs the service, you shoul stop driving the car until you can afford to buy the tools, or pay a mechanic who is familar with the 944/924S engine to perform the service for you.

[Dan924S]

Gohim is the man. Thanks. The car doesn't need the front engine service for another 10k according to the service records. The exaust is super annoying though. The car has no catalitic converter so its loud as a mo fo. Got the side markers working, but I still need to replace the turn signal relay. As for the horn, yes, I pulled the plastic cover off the relay and touched the connections together to make it sound. Does that mean I need a new horn relay or could it be something else? Finally, in reference to freeway frisbee, what is the best way to keep that roof from flopping around? The sunroof gear that is broken isn't the plastic one, its the long skinny one that goes down the inside of the body and goes to those motors. My dad called it a worm gear, but I he possesses the mechanical ability of a head of lettuce.

[Dan924S]

One more thing, the 944 haynes manual that is suggested on this site won't do the trick?

[ZV]

If I remember correctly, the sunroof is operated by a serrated cable that is pushed/pulled by the motor. No worm gears I don't think. Sounds to me like you need a new cable.

ZV
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Shifting is an art, learn it, love it, live it.

1976 Porsche 914 2.0 - Driving Restoration.
1987 Porsche 924S - Daily Driver

[Joes924Racer]

I dont have a 924s either just to say I have to fix my reverse lights also.
Welcome though.
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1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
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[gohim]

When I first bought my 87 924S, I thought, gee, I am going to miss the sunroof (both my 77 and 81 924 cars have/had sunroofs).

Then after reading about the problem that some people have had with the power sunroofs, I decided, guess it's not a bad thing to be missing.

Of course I wouldn't have minded getting the 924S with a power sunroof (the 77 and 81 had manual sunroofs), just to see if they are as much trouble as some people say they are.

So, I have never owned a 924S or a 944 with a power sunroof. And I can't tell you how to replace the gears, or adjust the arms.

You can test the wiring up to the horn switch by removing the cover/center pad on the steering wheel, disconnecting the horn, and listening to see if it will sound when you ground the single wire that connects from the steering column to the horn pad. If the horn sounds, the problem is in the horn switch in the center pad. And if the horn does not sound, then the problem is in the wiring running from the steering column to the main wiring harness.

Remember, the service interval for the "Front of Engine Service" is 3-Years, or 30K miles, whichever comes FIRST. I take it that you have service records that say the work was done about 20K miles ago. How long was that (more, or less, than three years ago)?

The Haynes Manual is a pile, good only as an emergency reference manual to be carried in teh car for use in emergencies at the side of the road.