924Board.org

[Porschephile]

Why is it that this discussion room and the one for body and interior are always so dead? I don't get it. we should all pay more attention to the posts.

[RageLtMan]

maybe the people with the little standard 924s people dont like us 924S types? :smile:

[ This Message was edited by: RageLtMan on 2002-10-17 17:57 ]

[Peter_in_AU]

maybe the people with the little standard 924s don't know the answer and would rather say nothing than give bad advice

[924 turbo]

If I were to guess, I'd say that most of the 924S people hang out at the Pelican Parts 924/944/968 forum, since it's heavily travelled by 944 people, and probably a better source of information than this board as far as specifics of the 2.5 engine go.

There are almost no 924/931 specific questions asked there, and I think the answer to most of them is "go ask your question again on the 924board.org site"

FWIW, here's a link to that forum.

[924RACR]

Heh heh... yeah, I personally would rather not give bad advice; recently I replied on the brake conversion question, and I guess I got that one wrong, since apparently Excellence did just such a conversion... ah well, I try...

_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[gohim]

The amount of activity probably has something to do with production numbers. The 924S was only made for three years (if you count 86 when no 924S cars were "officially imported" to the U.S.), and only around 2K-2.5K were imported to the U.S. On the other hand, 924 production spanned 1976 to 1985 (again, including the years that the cars were not officially imported (76,83,84,85 to the U.S.), and I don't remember the official numbers, but around 45K-50K were imported to the U.S.

Then, there is the percentage of cars that have survived. Engine maintenance costs on a 924S are extreme, and the cost of the 30K/3-year "front of engine/belt service" can meet or exceed the value of the car when the car is in poor condition. Many 924S owners drive the car until the engine breaks, or dump it when the service is due.

The 924S sold for $25K-$35K when new, while the 924 sold for between $10K-$20K (not including special editions). Current resale prices for the 924S are only slightly higher than a 924, and the price of a non-runner is virtually the same. This is similar to what has happened to the 931. Used 931 cars, project cars and junkers are selling for less than a 924 NA is many cases.

Ownership costs of a 924 are much lower than that of a 924S, the buy-in costs are lower, and there are more cars available.

There is no doubt in my mind as to why there is less activity on this discussion board than on the General 924 Boards.

[ This Message was edited by: gohim on 2002-10-18 07:52 ]

[Stu2j]

""Engine maintenance costs on a 924S are extreme""

You keep posting this kind of "information" but it really isn't true. When I bought my 924S, I asked for the 60,000 maintenance invoice. I am going to post this invoice on my website when I get a chance but here is the service that was performed:

Change Oil & Filter, check all fluids.
Replace Power Steering Pump
Replace Rack and Pinion
Replace Right Engine Mount
Replace Timing Belt, Water Pump, Thermostat, Front Engine Seals and rollers.
Front Brake Service to replace brake rotors and brake pads, lube slide pins, replace brake lining sensors, repack wheel bearings.
Rear Brake Service to replace brake pads, lube caliper slides and check rotors.

This was a lot of service and the total for this invoice was $2,094.

However, this is a 3 year (or more) service with an annualized cost of around $700 (or less).

My cars are daily driving cars and with car payments running $400 per month for a "maintenace free" new car that would hardly be noticed, I don't find $700 per year to drive a Porsche 924S that turns heads to be "extreme".

I certainly agree that the 924S costs more to maintain than a 924. However, I disagree that the maintenance on a 924S is "extreme". It's just maintenance.

[gohim]

Wow, you got all of that stuff done for $2100?

You didn't get the work done at a Porsche Dealer, or have Genuine Porsche Parts installed, did you? That isn't a problem, as long as the parts they used were quality rebuilt or new parts. the reason that I said wow is because the parts cost would be close to what you reported as the total bill if you had gone to a Porsche Dealer.

The "front of engine service" is every 30K miles or 3-years. Not every 60K miles or 3-years. Many owners have reported belt failures between 34K-40K miles (when Porsche recommends replacing the belts. Check out the number of reported failures on this message board, or on RennList.

I don't know how many cars you own, or how miles you drive your 924S per year, but many of the guys only have one car, and they drive that car more than 30K miles a year.

Before I got married and had kids, I drove my cars 50K-60K miles per year. That would be 2X "front of engine" services at over $2K a pop, for over $4.2K a year, for just engine service.

Oops, don;t forget the 2K (usually included with the belt change), 10K, and 20K belt inspection and retension at about $100 a throw.

That's extreme compared to 924 Series I engine maintenance. 924 Series I does not require water pump replacement (brand new $75), cam belt ($10) and balance shaft (na) replacement (non-interference & belt change is less than 30 minutes, no special tools required), front oil seal replacement ($20), and roller (belt tensioner $24) or pulley replacement (na).

No oil cooler seals to fail, no clutch master or slave cylinder to leak, no rubber centered clutch disc to fail, no hydraulic engine mounts to fail.

Extreme cost is a relative term. $2.3K for 30K miles or 3 years of driving for engine maintenance would not be extreme to a Ferarri Owner/Driver with a $100K car. $2.3K for maintenance on a car worth $3500-$4000 (in better than average condition) is extreme.

And how can you call over $2K a pop for a "front of engine" service not extreme when you are soliciting readers for free replacement parts for your car. With that much money to burn, you should easily be able to buy what you need from a Porsche Dealer, or the Aftermarket Porsche Suppliers.




[ This Message was edited by: gohim on 2002-10-18 07:50 ]

[-nick]

not to say that an S doesn't require more maintenance than your average car, but you get alot of car for the price. i still can't get over how little early cars go for.

i'm curious though- were you really driving 60k a year? divide that by 365 and you were driving about a 160miles a day 7 days a week. that's spending a good 3hours a day in your car. were you delivering pizza's in the thing?

most road cars see about 12k a year. i run a tad over that, but i drive mine out to boston and nyc a couple times a year and down to cincinnati once a year (i won't put the big sheepdog in cargo on a plane )

at 12k a year you're looking right at about 3 years between belt changes.

-nick

[Stu2j]

""Before I got married and had kids, I drove my cars 50K-60K miles per year.""

Now that's extreme. Most people wouldn't drive a Porsche like that and ANY car would have maintenance issues under such abuse.

""That's extreme compared to 924 Series I engine maintenance.""

It is a fact that the 924S costs more to maintain. It is also a later model and a lot more car.

"Extreme cost is a relative term."

I disagree..

"$2.3K for maintenance on a car worth $3500-$4000"

"Worth" is a relative term. The fact that someone wants to dump their $30,000 Porsche for $3500 is perfectly ok with me. My 924S turns a lot more heads than my neighbors $40,000 SUV. Go figure.

Trust me, cruising the Oceanfront in the Porsche 924S is a "slightly" different experience than cruising in my wife's new Jeep.

""And how can you call over $2K a pop for a "front of engine" service not extreme when you are soliciting readers for free replacement parts for your car. With that much money to burn,""

Money to burn? Wow, are you screwed up. My wife uses coupons and I try to save money restoring the car. Maybe in the long run, such useless cost saving measures will benefit us eh?

""you should easily be able to buy what you need from a Porsche Dealer,""

That's right. Now THINK that through. I could have run down to the local Porsche dealer and bought a brand new Boxster and avoided all this maintenance hassle. Or, I could pick up a 924S that I just love and enjoy restoring my 924.

Which of those options do you suppose has the highest annual cost?!?

[Paul]

Yearly maintenance on a Boxster runs $400 to $600, so don't think you'll save much on maintenance by buying a new car.

Also consider that most Boxster owners need a clutch by 40,000 miles, and new tires by 20,000 miles.

An oil change costs $100 at the dealer.


[ This Message was edited by: Paul on 2002-10-18 10:06 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Paul on 2002-10-18 10:19 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Paul on 2002-10-18 10:22 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Paul on 2002-10-20 08:44 ]

[John H]

I'm a bit like gohim - I used to run up huge miles ecery year.
I worked in a city 400 miles away from where I had my I would come back to the house every weekend, on the average I would fly (by plane not car)every third weekend and do the return trip two weekends out of three add to that the daily running around and I was doing around 40 to 50k a year.
I don't quite do that sort of milage anymore but still rack up about 30k miles a year betweeen the four cars I run - The road 931/7 is limited to 4k per year due to the insurance policy I have but the 924/ Audi /Nissan run up the balance.

[wawaloon]

All this confirms for me that if you own a 924S, or any of the 944 derivatives, you have to perform the work yourself.

[Porschephile]

ya, and since our outdated beauties don't have like 15 million different computers in them, it's easy to work on without messing up!

[Stu2j]