924Board.org

[Bluelobster]

Hi everyone. I'm a long-time lurker, first time poster. My problem car-child has broken my heart and my wallet yet again, and I need a virtual hug/pep talk/advice.

I have a 1987 924S (5 speed manual) that I foolishly bought last summer. The car was terribly abused by its previous owner and was towed home with the engine literally in pieces inside the cabin. A year and a half later, the car is back home having had the engine and transmission repaired, and I've repaired the upholstery/carpet and repainted the car as well. As I drove the car home, the power steering pump blew out, the car started leaking pretty much every fluid possible in its guts, and it feels like there's a million mile gap between the clutch being all the way in to where it reaches its "catch point." Mind you, I had the transmission repaired and the clutch replaced... I shouldn't have to drive this little girl like she's a rally car with blown valves.

At this point, I'm just flat-out disappointed, depressed, and angry with the whole thing. At what point do you throw in the towel on a project car? Where do you draw the line on continuing to repair something vs trashing the whole thing? When I raised heck with my mechanic, he kept saying the car was "so close" and not to give up on it, but after a year and a half of struggle and major expenses, all I want to do is give up.

And yes, I have tried to discuss the car with other local Porsche folks, only to get to laughed at and shamed out the parking lot because "it's nothing but a garbage car." Sigh....

Thanks in advance for reading this - and apologies for such a whiny post.
_________________
Learning is a never-ending journey, and I'll sleep when I'm dead.

1987 Porsche 924S

[Raize]

I think if you don’t do the work on these cars yourself they’re incredibly demoralising due to their low value and prestige so I get how you feel.


I don’t know enough about the Porsche engine to comment in detail on the technical side. But from a general auto mechanic point of view it doesn’t sound terrible.

[Fifty50Plus]

Welcome and don't give up hope. There are at least four different groups of Porsche people
(356ers, early and mid year 911ers, late model rich snobs and 924/944 folks) and you tried to talk to some of the wrong ones.
Your car has the potential of being a very nice ride in stock form. In this group folks try to help each other out in resolving issues and maintaining a car that has been disparaged by the other groups. There are folks here that are familiar with all of your issues and can help with pointers and suggestions.
Although pictures are a bit difficult for us techno-challenged, see if you can post a couple shots of your car when you got it and now. Seeing the pics should help you realize that you've already come a long way and are getting close. The 924 board is here to help.
_________________
1979 924 NA race car
1982 924 NA race car - Sold
1982 924 Turbo almost a PoS
1981 924 Turbo a real PoS, new engine
1982 924 Turbo nice body, blown engine
1972 911 E race car - going to Vintage
Various 944s to become IT-S race car

[Mike9311]

I second the other guys especially Fifty50plus

We have all been where you are at in some way or another. I parked my 1980 around '91-92 because turbo would never stay attached to the manifold. I just couldn't take it anymore. Guess what though, I still have her and she will drive again some day

You came to the right place. The 924S is a great car. A little bit 944 but still a 924 with that simple analog interior and feel we love.

One of the 924S's in my family just quit moving a few months ago. Clutch disc rubber center blown, but because of research and help from this forum, there is an adaptable disc for little money that will fix that issue.

I like your quotes. The first would be something I would say. The second it something my father says.

Welcome and feel free to share the 924 troubles. Your rewarding journey is just beginning
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car

[Bluelobster]

Thanks everyone. I think my frustrations seriously boiled over with this car the other day, especially since I had to rely on a local mechanic to handle a lot of the repairs that I was too inexperienced/scared to tackle, and I waited a year and a half only to get a very large bill and a car that is arguably not really driveable still. I love the quirkiness and attitude of the car, but holy cow, she can be such a PITA sometimes. Today's surprise du jour was discovering that the tach has died. Nothing says "Merry Christmas to myself" like trying to hunt down parts I suppose.

She has come a long way though. I hate seeing old "character pieces" go to the dump, and this car was no exception - I'm a sucker for "tough repair love" items, whether it's furniture, electronics, or cars.

Now back to parts hunting... hello Pelican Parts, my old friend. I've come to give you my credit card number again....
_________________
Learning is a never-ending journey, and I'll sleep when I'm dead.

1987 Porsche 924S

[wally509]

I guess we're in similar but different situations but have the same feelings.

Although I have been told over and over I got a great deal on my car, the reality is I paid a load of money (for a 924) and have essentially an undrivable car. With the auction fees, shipping, taxes and registration, I'm into this car for almost $23k. I am going to have to put literally thousands into just to be able to go anywhere in it.

Yesterday I pulled the fuel gauge sending unit out (the gauge was stuck on this fully restored car), to find huge sheets of the tank coating floating around in there. So I need a tank, plus to pay someone to R&R the transaxle because I am not comfortable doing that at this point. Well, the NOS sending unit the restorer put in has a manufacturing defect which I think I overcame but probably is not a 100% fix. The center shaft is welded on offset to one side and the float is dragging on the inside of the tube. Of course, this is an early car with a sending unit that is long term NLA. I guess I could go without a functioning gauge and just reset the odometer after I fill up and watch the miles...oh, wait, the odometer doesn't turn on this "fully restored" car.

I sort of knew the tank was a problem but my "Merry Christmas to myself" as you would say, was when I pushed the car back to pull the sending unit, found a huge puddle of coolant under this "fully restored" car.

I'm a little bitter on it right now but been down this road so many times, I know even on what appears to be the best cars there's an initial hurdle to get over to get the car where one wants it. Stick with it, right?
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1977 Martini 924, 1985 Mercedes 300SD, 1956 Austin-Healey 100

[chuck21401]

[moone924]

I'm into a lot of old cars with really no value. I talk to a lot of people who see my cars and discuss getting their own. I try to drill into them unless you're rich, enjoy disappointment, or both. The only way I can see owning said cars is working on them yourself.
What's to be afraid of? The money and time you spent having some shop working on it could have been spent on tools and learning it yourself. You could have something apart multiple times getting it right in the time you wait for the typical shop to get to it now days. Then if the shop doesn't get it right, you're going to be taking it apart yourself anyway or waiting again for them to get to it.
Not 924 related, but I remember the last time I took a car to a shop, a 1987 Audi 5000 CS Quattro. Sometime around 2005.I wanted new struts and lowering springs done. I thought it would be so convenient to just drop the car off and come back in a few weeks and just have it done. Few weeks came, and I picked it up, car looked sweet. Driving it hope I kept hearing noise from the front, the springs jumping. Well to end this story, they didn't replace the strut bearings, so the spring was twisting and jumping when you turn. I called them about it but they refused to replace them even though they forgot to as I provided them with the struts and springs.
SO I took it all apart and replaced them myself. I also replaced the strut mounts, and tie-rod ends, etc, all which were in need of replacement, and they didn't make me aware of.
_________________
Ryan Moone

Always shopping for a nice s2 931 to baby.
New philosophy : one car project at a time.

[Beartooth]

I hate hearing stories of paying "professionals" to fix things and have it end up be a train of aggravation, half-fixes, and wasted money. I have a hard time advising on things like this because I do pretty much all my own work, and I've got time, experience, and facilities for it. For those who don't - and I know it's very difficult to impossible for some people depending on job, family, and working space - it's just as much of a challenge, but of a different nature.

No matter the case, the argument that you should bide your time and buy a car in good to excellent shape is a wise one - buy in haste, repent at leisure, really. Not that I've been any good at holding myself to that! Anyway, there are cars that become too much of a headache - that you either need to put away and focus on something else for a while, or part ways with. The latter could be really difficult if you're into a car for more than it's worth in ideal shape, but it's either inoperable or practically undriveable. But sometimes it is best to just walk away.

It really helps having some car guy friends. I'm not talking about the local Porsche club, most likely. I haven't tested those waters, but I can see how that could be a waste of time or worse... It's the guys who've owned a ton of different cars, who aren't all in on one brand, and who've tried at least a little of everything, who can sometimes look at a car, talk to you about it, and know exactly what you should do with it. Sometimes we just need someone understanding to vent our frustrations to before we can find the strength to attack the problem again, but sometimes we end up going through the motions on a car and stringing things along even though deep down there's no love left for it.

Going back to working on it yourself vs. paying a professional, if you're not getting the results you expect from a shop and you have some aptitude, why not give it a go? Of course, you have to ask "what's the worst that could go wrong, and how hard and expensive will it be to start over?" before you jump down the rabbit hole, but on cosmetic things especially, you might be able to get a lot more mileage out of your own efforts than you'd think. Even on something like an engine rebuild, if you blow it up and have to start over, you can probably find a decent core for $500 or so (biggest problem is transportation). Even the stuff that's PFM (pure - um - magic) to most guys, like rebuilding a transmission, might be something you can figure out as you go - as long as you have enough reference material. Ultimately, the 924 is a good car to "just send it" when it comes to attempting advanced repairs, because there are so few people left who actually know more about it than us, and unless it's a GTS or something, you're not destroying something irreplaceable if you do screw up.

Oh by the way, someone mentioned a bad fuel gauge and broken odometer. I had pretty much that issue. My fuel gauge is sometimes dead on E, sometimes bounces around and sits at am implausible position for a while, and sometimes (I think) reports accurately. I haven't got around to digging into it, but my odometer also quit moving very early on, so that was a problem. Fortunately, you can take the speedometer apart by carefully prying back the metal ring that holds the plastic face to the body, and then you have to get into the guts and find a way to knurl the shaft where it engages the drive gear. It's supposed to be press-fit, but I think when they sit a long time the rollers get stiff enough that the gear starts turning on the shaft instead of turning the shaft and counters. Seem to be a common problem; I found a write-up here, was able to get mine working, and it's held fine so far. Just one of those little things.
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1980 931 diamond in the rough

[wally509]

Well put Beartooth and moone924.

As for the local Porsche club (meaning the pca), I wouldn't bother. I have been involved with them for 12+ years. In my experience, they're not snobs as hinted at earlier as much as most of them are not really car people from what I have seen. They are generally older people with a lot of dough and paying thousands for simple maintenance is irrelevant to them. Almost none of them work on their own cars and a good number of them know so little about cars in general, I am surprised they can even figure out how to put the gas in. It's more of a social club from what I have seen.

I am paying someone to do this transaxle drop and tank deal because even with its flaws, this is still a really nice car (there's a whole thread on this forum about the restoration) and I don't want to screw it up. I've been around old cars for a LONG time and have done transmission drops and rebuilds and most everything else save for body and paint. I'm older and at a point where I know where I should spend money so I don't end up "hating" the job and car. Plus I don't really have time, I am still finishing the restoration of my Healey 100 and I've got a list to tackle on the diesel Mercedes as well. A couple people on this forum recommended the shop I am going to use and I met with the owner and there were other 924's in there, so...
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1977 Martini 924, 1985 Mercedes 300SD, 1956 Austin-Healey 100

[Bluelobster]

For me, doing anything major on my car is pretty much impossible - between work, kids, and caring for an older parent, my hands are beyond full already. I also do not own most of the tools needed for major mechanical car repairs. I have rebuilt the upholstery and interior myself (I was able to save the original Porsche logo fabric for the seat rebuilds, which was pretty nice). But, for something like replacing the clutch, that's just not doable.

In defense of my mechanic, he's very experienced with 924s and 944s, having started his career as a 944 tech back in the 80s. My car was only one of dozens of project cars at his shop though, and he freely admitted that he let my car sit for too long because he took on too many "fast turnaround for serious $$$$" jobs.

When I bought my car, the major concern was the engine - the prior owner had taken everything apart because he thought he could fix it... until he realized he couldn't. As the body was in fantastic shape, I figured at worst I'd do an engine swap. Test drives were out of the question, given the engine was in pieces - seriously, it was in pieces in amazon.com boxes inside the cabin. So, after working frantically on the interior for about a month, I decided it was better to let a mechanic get it running in a few weeks, rather than it sitting and languishing in my garage for eternity.

So, I could get a few jackstands from Harbor Freight and get under the car, but... will I have the time to properly wrench under the car? Probably not. I'd like to be a capable DIY mechanic, but I need to be realistic in terms of my time and abilities.

As for the PAC, in my area at least it's nothing more than a wealthy old dude social club - a 911 and only 911 social club at that. They weren't at all pleasant to me, but that's fine - I'm not a wealthy old dude, and that's not how I roll anyways.
_________________
Learning is a never-ending journey, and I'll sleep when I'm dead.

1987 Porsche 924S

[Raize]

[Legitimate Salvage]

Bluelobster,

I can empathize with you. Over the years I've had several cars that had me re-thinking my life decisions... a '66 Mustang in particular that I threw the towel in on and felt very little guilt about.

You've learned a lesson that took me too many years to get my head wrapped around, "Why pay someone to eff up my car when I can eff it up my damn self for free?" I found that to be a liberating mindset.

I live about an hour from you up in Burlington. Happy to help in any way I can (even if it's just crying in a beer or two).

Hang in there!

LS

[Bluelobster]

Thanks LS! If it ever warms up again, I'm heading back into the garage to start working on some of the ongoing electrical issues. Between the sunroof, tach, heater, and wipers, I have quite a bit of work cut out for me. Taking baby steps, but trying nonetheless.
That's great that you're just down the road in Burlington. I've actually contemplated getting a hauler up to your area to pick up an 83 944. Car is probably absolutely non-fixable, but it would be nice to have something that I can wrench away on with zero concerns - a literal training car so I can finally learn how to take an engine apart, etc. But, getting a hauler = time and money, plus I'd have to rent a storage unit for the car (which means more money).
I'd love to meet some other NC 924/944 folks - if there's ever any kind of get-together, please let me know.
_________________
Learning is a never-ending journey, and I'll sleep when I'm dead.

1987 Porsche 924S