924Board.org

[81turbo]

this post ia a copy from "new interior in my 931" i felt that everyone should read it.

"My last post was not an attack on youth. I am 22 years old and on my second porsche. I am sick of dumbass comments on this board. Yes the borad is a great place to get ideas and to try them out with others. But there is a problem when people have no idea what they are talking about. The 944 dash would fit if you are really good with a welding torch. Also you would have to shell out the cash for the dash, new door panels, center console etc. not ot mention that the 944 gauge cluster would never fit into the 924. ALL I AM SAYING IS BE CONTENT WITH YOUR 924. IT WILL NEVER BE A 944, 968, OR A 911. BE HAPPY WITH IT FOR WHAT IT IS. IT IS A GREAT CAR AND A BLAST TO DRIVE. YOU WILL NEVER RUN 13 SECOND QUARTER MILES,OR HAVE YOUR CAR DO 0-60 IN SIX SECONDS. ALOT OF THE GUYS ON THE BOARD ARE DREAMERS. IF YOU WANT A FAST CAR GO BUY ONE, YOUR 924 WILL NEVER BE A FAST A MODIFIED 951! YOU WILL SPEND LESS MONEY AND HAVE A MUCH BETTER DAILY CAR IF YOU JUST BUY ONE TO BEGIN WITH. CBASS YOUR IDEAS ARE OKAY BUT IMPRACTICAL. ALL I AM SAYING IS BEFORE YOU MAKE PLANS ON WHAT YOU WILL DO TO YOUR CAR YOU HAVE TO GET IT. THE HYBRID DASH SHOULD BE THE LEAST OF YOUR WORRIES. BEFORE YOU WAST MONEY ON THAT REPLACE ALL THE PEP BOYS SHIT THAT HAS MOST LIKELY BEEN PUT ON IT OVER THE YEARS. GET YOU PRIORITIES STRAIGHT!"

[John Brown]

Hear Hear!! Well stated!!

[D Hook]

Couldn't agree with you more. I'm so tired of listening to one person dispense advice on things he knows nothing of and opinions on American laws he's totally ignorant of. You want to advise people on how to take care of their 924/931? BUY ONE FIRST! TRY OUT YOUR IDEAS ON YOUR OWN CAR FIRST! Then come on here and report the results. But advising swapping out the engine for the engine du jour is just getting old and annoying.

BTW, Americans get more than a little testy when you start spreading disinformation about their society and it's laws, especially gun laws. You might want to shut your mouth and open your ears a little more often so you can learn something. You want to give opinions on American laws and America in general? Better study up a little first. Otherwise, you are only confirming what most people only now suspect.

[friskynibbles]

i agree on buying a car and doing the work, and being reasonable in your expectations, and not dissing people... but still, ideas are good...
maybe i shouldn't have posted this.

[Joes924]

Damn thats was good, Cbass is allright though... I have a early 944 guage cluster in my 79,along with 87 924 s door skins
and visers

[D Hook]

Dan: You're right. Ideas being batted back and forth are what we need, too. My objection is to anyone who dispenses advice without experience or expertise. I'd ask Joe questions about p&p because he's done it. I'd ask Vaughan questions about race hardware because he's been there. I'd not be worried asking GoHim about details on parts. But when it comes to spending time/money/labor on my car, I don't want advice from someone who's simply regurgitating information he's read on another website. In my business "should work" is not a phrase we like to use. It either BETTER work or someone's goin' down the road. I'd much rather hear from those who've DONE the work themselves or paid to have it done right. But lately, there's been alot of posts that are impractical and some that are just downright wrong and are easily spotted by anyone who's spent more than a few hours working on a 924/931. On the mustang boards, they call these guys posers.

I'm not namin' names. I'm just saying it's okay to have opinions and thoughts about subjects that come up on here and NOT post them. It's not like it's a contest to see who has the most posts, although sometimes that's what it seems like. The idea is to share information, not spread disinformation, whether is be about Porsches or about American laws and society.

This is me shutting off my computer now. I've ranted enough for this month, thank you.

[Cbass]

Hey Hook, sorry if I offended you about the my opinions on guns. I had a friend who got shot in Vancouver, and now he can't walk. I think that if handguns hadn't been so easily available, it probably wouldn't have happened.

81Turbo, I agree that putting a late 944 dash in a 924 is frivilous and pretty stupid, but I get pretty bored in my town, there isn't a great deal to do. Thats one reason why I tend to research my projects in depth.

As for my tech advice, I have experience with pushrod V8s mostly. That is why I read every post on the board, so I can garner a little better understanding of the cars.

Any advice I give is not meant as a walk through guide, it's a suggestion. If I'm not sure, I will say so. If I don't have it on good authority, I won't post it.

[Rick MacLaren]

Talk here seems to be all about opinions, so I figure I should toss in my $0.02 worth...even if no one is asking. I've got lots of those!

A lot of this hinges on 'credibility' - and people seem to think that means 'being a mechanic'. That's really narrow and it's endemic here.

Whether or not someone has "done something" mechanically seems to me to be an ok criterion for credibility, but it's way overblown here. Isn't being a sensible consumer a reasonable criterion for being 'credible'? Or isn't 'wisdom' or 'maturity' something needed too, from time to time? Or what of creative ideas? They're no good if the person doesn't eat lithium grease and head bolts for breakfast? Crap.

I've seen guys heat bolts with propane torches, under cars, on their backs, for 4 days, on some 'deal' parts car while their wives are inside the house alone and the kids walking on eggshells until the car is done. Should I be listening to people like that?

You want the mechanic telling you how to make decisions for your life? You trust someone who has nothing to lose from dispensing DIY advice when he loses no time from giving that same advice? That's insane! You could spend your whole life fixing your damned car and for what? Saving a few hundred? I haven't met a person with an IQ over 90 (i.e., that's slightly above 'moron') who cannot fix your car given time, resources and equipment: anyone can do anything. The trick is: No one has that much time, bux and equipment. And if you don't have it, and money is scarce, you need good consumer advice - which may involve some mix of "DIY" and "Contract it out".

I've seen advice here like

"Oh yeah,...<Insert advice here>

- you can swap that head
- you can swap that tranny
- you can switch over that brake system
- you can take out the gas tank
- you can swap in new shocks in a day"

Crap! It's total macho crap. And you're gonna be driving a Ford Fiesta or taking the bus if you listen to it.

- 90% of the men here do not have properly equipped garages.

- 90% of the men here do not have even a fully metric tool set, let alone gear pullers, stethiscopes, 35 mm or 36 mm Big Bolt removers, in-line fuel pressure testing equipment, vaccuum line breach testing equipment, proper torches to heat up bolts for removal, or even the ability to read a Porsche electrics flow diagram.

- 90% do not have the capability (i.e., the hoist, the right angle) to remove siezed bolts from the underside of the car

- 90% want a bolt on they can do themselves.

- and of those 90% who want to do the work themselves, 90% of those have the 924 as their daily driver AND do not have the requisite competencies, equipment and materials to carry it out to completion on time.

Point: If you make a major decision based on what someone on a bulletin board says to you then you deserve what you get. You should be reading the 924 Haynes; you should be reading other bulletin boards to know what others do to their cars; you should be talking to your friends and family who aren't out to make a buck off of you; and you should be listening to a trained person in that specific area who has 'something to lose' from being wrong.

Advice is cheap. Listen to those who's reputation and credibility are at stake, and to those who aren't dispensing advice so they can sell you something later on. And go to a concourse show sometime, and see what REAL 924's look like. It'll make you think twice about your latest 'flavour of the month' mechanical project.


[ This Message was edited by: Rick MacLaren on 2002-06-15 00:14 ]

[8trdrvr]

Damm good post Rick! well said...

also posted by Firsky, "...being reasonable in your expectations..." also very well said.

I couldnt agree more with the mixture of DYI and Contracting out, know your limits.

The forum is a great place to vent, share ideas and discuss, post responsibly.

Kevin

[D Hook]

Couldn't agree more with the last two posts. Consumer advice is extremely important for those of us who don't own the correct tools to do the job the way it should be done. Thanks!

[Joes924]

It'll make you think twice about your latest 'flavour of the month' mechanical project.

Got at least 3 more of these...

1. tranny ,linkage work with clutch pack complete prwess. plate,throw bearing,pilot bearing.

2.shocks & struts

3. complete interior,rci seats,stereo
back seat removal,hack a hole over linkage on tranny.

[gohim]

Speaking as one who has performed all of the services on Rick's list at home in my garage, none of the items on list are out of reach for a shadetree mechanic with average skills, the Factory Service Manual, and a decent set of common mechanic's tools (it helps if you have a floor jack, jackstands, and a set of spring compressors, but any serious shadetree mechanic should have these).

The longest job listed is the brake swap out, which most certainly can be accomplished in less than a day (or a weekend if the installer is working very slowly), if used parts to be installed, they do not need any attention, and the person installing the parts is not sidetracked for long looking at other components.

The shocks and struts can be removed and replaced in less than 4 hours (front struts 30 minutes each, and rears are about 10 minutes each), the cylinder head in less than four hours (the last one I did took 45 minutes to reinstall), the gas tank would take more (if you are resetting the rear ride height), and the tranny less than three hours (I just did one in less than two hours).

It is important to know your own limits, and also to recognize that just because your abilities, funds, and equipment are limited, doesn't mean that the next person's are, or that the next person is not fully capable of completing a task that you feel is out of your reach.

Bolt-ons are just as satifying for some, as other more complex tasks. I consider most tasks on a 924 to be bolt-on difficulty level, with the exception of engine removal and replacement (this is a simple task, if you have the engine hoist, it doesn't take long), resetting the rear ride height (another longer job), engine rebuilding (you would need some specialized tools here), and transmission rebuilding (you might need some tools here also).

Just because you feel that a task is below your station, doesn't mean that the next person is not willing to complete the operation themself. Just because someone has not completed a particular task before, does not mean that the person is not capable of reading the Factory Service Manual (the Haynes is a joke), gathering the important points, and completing the task competently, without multiple attempts, in a reasonable amount of time.

Some people want to know as much as possible about their car, they may enjoy learning about their cars, and they may enjoy completing repair tasks and modifications on their cars themselves.

Others might prefer to drive their cars, and prefer not to touch mechanical tasks, be it maintenance or modification.

Let's not discourage others from enjoying their cars in their own ways.

[ This Message was edited by: gohim on 2002-06-15 03:34 ]

[924_fan]

I agree, some people seem to be posting answers about things that they know nothing about. These same people appear to value quantity of posts over the quality of the information being passed on. Not too long ago, I read every post to the board. Now I look to see who the poster is. And, if they are one of the members of the quantity counts school, I don't even read the post.

On the other hand, I have also noticed an increased number of posts asking about things that are covered in the FAQ. People should start with the FAQ first before asking questions here. If you are too lazy to read the FAQ before posting here, how much effort will you put into working on the car.

We come here to share an interest and accurate information about the 924; not to read should, could, or maybe from people who are clueless (except maybe in the engine swap area)


Nomex suit on.



[ This Message was edited by: 924_fan on 2002-06-15 04:28 ]

[teo]

If you have all those tools and skills to perform those tasks mentioned you will need much more than some posts from this board to be discouraged.
On the contrary if someone tells you with confidence that the tranny swap can be done in a few hours in the garage, and fools you try to do that on your own, you might end with a car taken to pieces you can not reassemble.

So I agree, know your limits, but also take the other party's limits into account when giving advices.

Teo
the unskilled

ps: of course reaching and pushing your limits comes only by experience, but you can get there with smaller steps, too.

[Rick MacLaren]

Far be it from me to discourage someone from enjoying working on their car. Absolutely. But, in the same spirit of openness, let's not create a Holy Trinity of Mechanic, Racer and Parts Guru as being the sole guardians of "924 Truth" either. Each is just one contributor to a collection of views.

I've got respect for anyone that does any job well. That said, it's also true that if I had my way, I might be out playing on my back on my car, for hours, pissing around on things that amuse me (i.e., give me learning), but, sadly, there are only 24 hours in a day, so time and necessity don't give me, or numerous other people, the opportunity to do the things they might want to do.

Take for instance even a spring compressor and a decent set of mechanic's tools. I was uninstalling my turbo tube in a mechanic friend's garage last week. Know what I needed and didn't have? A 13 mm. stubby mini ratchet. The tool had a 3.5" handle and was a little under 1/4" in shaft diameter. I had to borrow one...Snap On made it and it was quite expensive. And it was really the only good tool to do that job. Short of a chest of mechanic tools really, very few people have that kind of system in place.

I live in a condo-type building. I can't plop my car on jacks and begin a weekend job any more than any of the young student guys here can do that. And have you ever asked the owner of a condo or an apartment if he minds if you hook up a 300' extension cord so you can run an air compressor or even an electric drill out to a lot 250' away? They don't even laugh, they just get a serious look on their faces.

Now imagine the trouble you're in, the hot water you're in, if you start one and can't complete it? And what about at night? Well, if you're in an open space like your building parking lot, you're now schlepping tools on your back to the building and praying to God that the car doesn't come off the jacks onto someone's cat or child.

And when I'm relegating tasks outwards to contractors Gohim believe me, trust me, it's not a matter of things being beneath my station or some puffed up sense of being better than anyone. You've kind of painted a false portrait of me. You'll be pleased to learn I don't have much snob in me. I'm a farmer's kid and quite used to work (though I ran from it as a teen), and recently have been involved in the castrating of 1000 lb. bulls (yes it can be done) so I can spend time with my Dad. Pride or sense of 'station' doesn't figure into things when you're trying to hold the dangling fruit of a 1000 lb animal, wiping it's shit from your forearms. So I don't think any job is too low or beneath my station. It's a question of parcelling out priorities: I can work on my car all the time and estrange those around me or I can shell out the bucks and have some peace and driving fun. But remember, many of us have a 924 as a primary vehicle and girlfriends and wives or kids who require time too. That means that although we may 'prefer' to be out working on the car and playing Kidd Rock on a stereo and smoking a joint, there just isn't the time or space to do so. I'd also prefer to be with my Dad more, but hey, where's the room for others in that equation? Or a relaxing Saturday without car woes? It's not because doing mechanical work is beneath anyone, it's because there are other realities.

[ This Message was edited by: Rick MacLaren on 2002-06-15 06:14 ]