924Board.org

[dreamgts]

I would like to know how DIS and COP work, I am assuming that systems are identical if not the same in function. Do these systems need a ECU to work or can they just be fitted instead of the distibutor. Any links to suppliers or info please.

dreamgts
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2 PORSCHE 924 (CURRENT PROJECTS)
2 CLASSIC CORTINAS (FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT(FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT 132 2000CC(JUST PURCHASED)
4 SUV'S
2 SEDANS
1 OPEL PANEL VAN
WIFES SUZUKI ALTO

[Min]

Just like any ignition system, DIS and COP systems require something to control them.

Min
_________________
Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.

[dreamgts]

[Rocco R16V]

DIS and COP both require a crank angle sensor and an ecu to control sprak. COP = Coil on Plug where there is one coil for each plug, usually the coil is mounted on the valve cover right over the spark plug.

DIS and COP are really the same thing. COP has to be DIS, a DIS can also be a waste spark system where there is one coil for two cylinders. They call it waste spark because when the coil fires it sends spark to two cyl, one is on the exhaust stroke, one on power stroke. the "wasted spark" doesnt decrease spark energy at the other plug.

getting rid of the dist is a good thing as it makes your ignition much more accurate and delivers a bigger hotter spark to the plug. It allows more coil dwell time between firing for cooler operation and higher reving capability without the short dwell time of a single coil and distributor.
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"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves. "
Ronald Reagan

[ideola]

The DTAFast S60 Pro has built-in drivers for COP. Not all ECUs do, so you will need to investigate this and make it part of your selection criteria when looking at ECUs.
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[dreamgts]

Just talked to Allan from DTA Fast and besides almost ridiculing my path of using weber kit with supercharger 'I have no issue with superchargers, they are for guys who want to drive a car rather than talk about horsepower with their baseball cap on backwards'(his quote) rather rude I would say., he just recomended the Pro40 which is an ignition only type ECU. Im sure that COP can be applied to weber application since Iv seen it applied on pic on what seems to be a very popular and well known successful D Prod 924. If DTA FAst cant give me tech help I think I will look ellsewhere, Saying that my path is outdated in this day and age makes me feel disappointed after all the research and sourscing for parts Iv done over these last few weeks. I cant believe he is making me feel I have to buy what he likes or supplies.
Thanks

dreamgts
_________________
2 PORSCHE 924 (CURRENT PROJECTS)
2 CLASSIC CORTINAS (FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT(FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT 132 2000CC(JUST PURCHASED)
4 SUV'S
2 SEDANS
1 OPEL PANEL VAN
WIFES SUZUKI ALTO

[Min]

Your planning on using carbs with a supercharger? oh my, I'm afraid that's not a very good idea. It can be done sure, but umm, get ready for some burnt pistons. Have you read supercharged from corky bell? I would recommend it. I know a guy who's got a roots blower with a carb on a old school v8, he blows a piston out of his car about once a year. The reason for that is the uneven distribution of fuel from his carburetor into his cylinders.

Min
_________________
Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.

[dreamgts]

[ideola]

My neighbor down the street has a 500+ BHP Camaro with a supercharged & carbureted setup that he's run for years with little problems. I don't know if it's because he's a pretty conservative guy or what. I'm not at all versed in forced induction on carbs, but I believe it can be done effectively.

As for COP, you might want to take a look at Autosport Labs' MegaJolt2/COP, 034Motorsport's Universal 1-12-Cyl Stage Ib Distributor Ignition, or Simple Digital Systems' EM4-F.
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[dreamgts]

I just wanted a simple effective system for my car especially fuel supply. I just cant seem to understand EFI and what is needed, Iv seen one system using the stock intake manifold with fuel rail which I liked but I still cant understand how its done. I will try to give it a closer look. I know I have to eliminate all the piping and the complete dizzy system which has already been done anyway.
I will try to understand that system before I do any other stupid mistakes.

Thanks
dreamgts
_________________
2 PORSCHE 924 (CURRENT PROJECTS)
2 CLASSIC CORTINAS (FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT(FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT 132 2000CC(JUST PURCHASED)
4 SUV'S
2 SEDANS
1 OPEL PANEL VAN
WIFES SUZUKI ALTO

[ideola]

http://www.efi101.com/
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[dreamgts]

After being given some advice here about webers and supercharger I shall have to go back to the idea of EFI. So I will take it step by step this time cause Iv just decided to scrap what has cost me $1200+ to buy (not delivered yet either) not including the fuel pump and FPR for webers
So using a stock inlet and fitting EFI. I know I need a fuel rail and injectors, so my first question is which will be the best to use, These (injectors)I believe can be fitted instead of the stock injectors or else fitted on the intake itself as a fellow member Arvidn states to in his conversion. I also read that there are certain pencil style injectors which fit instead of the original without any machining, these are from Bosch /Siemens. Does anyone have a link or part number for these if they can be fitted. Regarding the fuel rail I have seen ones fitted to the head and at least one fitted to the intake (Arvidn)

I have removed all piping and sensor wires from the original intake, If this intake is to be used, do I have to re install these sensors? and if not what else has to be removed from the intake eg-WUR etc. I will take it from here as soon as I fully understand what needs to be done refering this query. So here we go again guys. I am using search as a friend too just to pick up some ideas which I might need to elaborate on further.

Thanks
dreamgts
_________________
2 PORSCHE 924 (CURRENT PROJECTS)
2 CLASSIC CORTINAS (FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT(FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT 132 2000CC(JUST PURCHASED)
4 SUV'S
2 SEDANS
1 OPEL PANEL VAN
WIFES SUZUKI ALTO

[ideola]

Are you absolutely intent on forced induction? You could still do Webers with a stand-alone ignition controller. The D-Prods didn't have forced induction, so it would be more period correct to do Webers without forced induction.

If you're intent on forced induction, EFI will definitely be the better path to go. I have developed a fuel rail which will be available for group buy very soon, as in later this month or early March at the latest. The trigger wheel setup for DIS is still a few months out realistically, but will be forthcoming later this spring.

As for the sensors, you can pitch anything and everything that is CIS-specific, so WUR, AAV, CSV, etc. can all go. You will want to source the following:
MAP (manifold air pressure) sensor
IAT (intake air temp) sensor
CLT (coolant temp) sensor (could possibly reuse OEM)
TPS (throttle position) sensor
ICV (idle control valve) (could use AAV, by why not go modern)
VR (variable reluctance) sensor (for DIS crank trigger)
Boost control solenoid (strictly optional, for electronic boost control only)
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[ideola]

Link to photo album showing my fuel rail installed on a 931 head. Have not test fitted to an NA head, but I am fairly confident it will work with little to no modification:
http://garage.ideola.com/prod-FR-931-album.html
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

[dreamgts]