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RC · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 2637 Location: Australia

Left this under the tree for Santa to finish welding.

I`ve been a good boy. I have been patient. I have been so F@#$%n patient! I have waited months to get this manifold welded.

Top and sides no problem, but to weld the bottom bit requires a special small torch as theres only 2" clearance. Theres 4 ally welders in town but only one had a small torch to get in there. So on a Friday afternoon (never a good time) ask his boy (not a good idea) Can Cameron (does it help when you actually know the guy?) weld this? (that was before I even cut it up or put the hole in the plate) Yea, no worries, was the reply. Cool, so I carve up a manifold and bit of 1/2" plate and take in in Monday morning with the so very optimistic hope of getting it back at the end of the week.

That was back in September I think. Well after finding his torch didnt work and then getting parts and "fixing" it found "some F`wit" had burnt a hole in the coolant hose. Another month wait and after having it repaired discovered the controller was inoperative. OH BS, motherF@#$k C@#!

Yes! I`m pissed off. Thats the last thing I need to get my car running. In the meantime I`ve made and installed EFI with WBO2, and all the crap that goes with it like making a wiring loom, fuel rail and braided hoses, a new cam and lifters, made new pulleys, etc etc. Have had a cam made and had parts shipped from the US and China (only AN fittings).

Looks like I still wont be driving it for Christmas...... UNLESS I just run a big bead of polyurethane sealant along the bottom. Sure it will take the heat and some vacuum pressure and the vibrations. Wont even see it unless you use a mirror. Can even get it in gray. Welded on three sides, surely it wont fall off. Made it a good fit anyway and filed it to be so.

Any comments?

Roger

flosho · Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject:

Santa can JBweld.
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[This Space For Rent]

Lizard · Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject:

use a vertical bandsaw and cut the runners a few inches off the airbox, weld the bottom, then weld the runners back up.

I see no other way to really accomplish that.
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3 928s,

leadfoot · Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject:

dissect the plenum so that welding can be done from the inside and leave your final welds in accessible places...

i.e

cut off the top and opposite side to the throttle side in an L shape....

weld in your throttle plate from the inside, then finish off the other new cuts...
Stuart
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1981 ROW 924 Turbo -
carbon fiber GT mish mash
LS1 conversion in progress...

RC · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 2637 Location: Australia

Smoothie · Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject:

Yes, JB Weld is a 2-part epoxy, and dark grey in color.

Alumiweld might be another possibility. It goes on like solder - you heat the part with a propane torch, and has high tensile strength.
http://www.durafix.com.au/
http://durafix-for-aluminum.com/
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"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."

'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox

endwrench · Joined: 07 Dec 2002 Posts: 1631 Location: Victor, Montana

Hey, you might try this stuff:

http://www.por15.com/prodinfo.asp?grp=PU&dept=10

I like JBWeld but this stuff is 10 times as tuff and strong. It would be very easy to get a nice smooth look with it too. It is very light in color when it dries. It sticks to aluminum like nothing I've seen. Plan on grinding it out if you plan for this to be an interm fix before you weld. I would really consider it permenent. Good luck either way.

Todd
_________________
'79 924NA. Rebuilt 9.5:1, MSDS header, Mega Squirt Injection, MJLJ-EDIS Ignition, 1.6L Whipple Charger and Intercooler, 10lbs Boost, 944 Trans, Custom HD Clutch.
"simsport" said....superchargers are better than turbos its official!....

RC · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 2637 Location: Australia

Thanks Smoothie, also checked out JBweld on google and it sounds like good gear. Cant find a supplier in OZ but see that it can be got from Pelican with my next order.

Somewhat sus about those "magic rods" at $60. Even one of their demmo welds looked like bird crap to me.

So unless you can say you`ve used them and they`re great, think I`ll give them a miss.

On the other hand, Endwrench`s suggestion of POR15 looks promising. Also can be obtained at my local trade shop in OZ according to their web link.

Yes, I was looking at something temporary and welding it later but may now just use that POR15 once and for all.

Todd, if you can confirm youve used the stuff and its better than JBweld, I will accept your recommendation and get some.

Thanks,
Roger

Peter_in_AU · Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 2743 Location: Sydney, Australia

Be sure to check the temperature range of any epoxy you're considering. It gets quite warm under there.

The durafix rods are nothing special. I can buy 1 metre CIG aluminium brazing rods at a little hardware store in Sydney city for $1 each. You can get a good result with them with a LPG torch but you need to be patient. Don't know how well they would work on a cast part.
_________________
1979 924 (Gone to a better place)
1974 Lotus 7 S4 "Big Valve" Twin-cam (waiting)
1982 924 (As featured on Wikipedia)

Learn to love your multimeter and may the search be with you

Peter_in_AU · Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 2743 Location: Sydney, Australia

Here's some examples of what you can do with a propane or LPG torch on reasonably thick aluminium. The base is 10mm and the throat is 3mm. You need patience and a tip that will give you a narrow flame. This is one of my early attempts.

_________________
1979 924 (Gone to a better place)
1974 Lotus 7 S4 "Big Valve" Twin-cam (waiting)
1982 924 (As featured on Wikipedia)

Learn to love your multimeter and may the search be with you

endwrench · Joined: 07 Dec 2002 Posts: 1631 Location: Victor, Montana

RC,

I've used the stuff in several applications underhood with no ill effects from the heat. The stuff is rated for 300°F and it will take all of that and then some. I "tested" it by sticking a couple pieces of aluminum together in a T formation then soaking them in gas for 2 weeks then some used oil for about 6 weeks (forgot it). No sign of softening or loosining. I couldn't break them apart by hand anyway. I then placed it on top of my wood burning barrel stove for a day. I didn't try to break it while hot but the next day it seemed to suffer no ill effects. JB would not pass any of these tests. It has its place though.

Peter, that is pretty decent aluminum brazing. Better than I have been able to accomplish. Mine always pits more. I use acetalyne though.

Todd
_________________
'79 924NA. Rebuilt 9.5:1, MSDS header, Mega Squirt Injection, MJLJ-EDIS Ignition, 1.6L Whipple Charger and Intercooler, 10lbs Boost, 944 Trans, Custom HD Clutch.
"simsport" said....superchargers are better than turbos its official!....

RC · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 2637 Location: Australia

Thats very nice aluminium welding or brazing Peter.

Much better in fact than the pics on the durafix website!

Surprised how good it looks. Tried with some expensive Eutectic rods years ago and it turned out crap and threw that idea away. Must have been me.

Tried to get a small LPG torch in there and its a tight fit. Sure I would have trouble getting the rods up here unless I bought a whole packet. Far from confident about my ability and the end result, especially on cast in a spot where I can hardly even see.

BTW Peter, are those shots of an adapter for a 924 manifold to a commodore TB or series 1 elbow?

Endrwench, appreciate your solid recommendation. Excellent test results too and quite believable. Are you an agent for POR15?

Well you sold me and I started looking for a supplier here. I rang one that was open today (public holiday) and got a rude shock when he quoted me $58. Its only $22 in the US. Something doesnt add up. I hate getting ripped off by sharks.

Well went to Bunnings a large hardware chain and discovered similar products. 2 part kneadable epoxy putties, with identical properties to POR15. There was 2 other brands from the US and one made by Sika (Japanese). Got one that was Selleys, reputable local brand but is made in the USA anyway, for $15. Rated at 120° C continual and 140° C intermittent, have big problems if it gets that hot! Trust that the original patent is over 17 years old and now competitors can manufacture a similar product.

Cleaned up the area and roughened it with a die grinder and wire wheel then soap water and pressure cleaner.

Mixed up the putty as per the directions and applied it. Very easy to use and am pleased with the appearance for a first timer. About $4 worth is all that was kneaded.

Will let it set overnight and see how easy it is to file and sand tomorrow. Hopefully will be able to post about a successful result.

Roger

leadfoot · Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject:

Nice,
almost used that stuff when one of the tang on my ignition housing snapped off...
The cast part took to welding though...
Just make sure if you ever get it welded that every last bit of epoxy is scaped off. It fizzes and gives off the worst gas that sticks to your eyes... very nasty stuff....
Leadfoot
_________________
1981 ROW 924 Turbo -
carbon fiber GT mish mash
LS1 conversion in progress...

RC · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 2637 Location: Australia

endwrench · Joined: 07 Dec 2002 Posts: 1631 Location: Victor, Montana

I like the looks of that stuff. The Por15 actually looks like clay when it sets up. Not very appealing to the eye. Is it water based?

Todd
_________________
'79 924NA. Rebuilt 9.5:1, MSDS header, Mega Squirt Injection, MJLJ-EDIS Ignition, 1.6L Whipple Charger and Intercooler, 10lbs Boost, 944 Trans, Custom HD Clutch.
"simsport" said....superchargers are better than turbos its official!....