924Board.org

[Gotrob]

Sorry about the length
I have been searching for a 924 for some time, and I have just had an inspection done on a 931. Here is what they said:

Oil filter housing leaks (a lot) $100
Rear wheel bearings needed $150
Plugs show signs of burning oil
All drive belts $130
Alternator bushing problem $120
Steering rack rebuild $800
Turbo leaks $800
Waste gate loose $100
Multiple misc items

The car is in very good condition and has records dating back to 1986, but the owner is asking a premium price $4000 (which includes spare rims and tires, cover, and manuals). I will base my offer on $$ of repairs.

I think I can handle doing the wheel bearings, belts and other misc items, but how hard is it too tighten a wastegate? I have very little knowledge of the workings of a turbo, but this does not sound difficult.

Oil leak, steering rack, and alternator I would probably leave to a shop, and I would skip the turbo leak fix until absolutely needed.

I guess I am just trying to decide how many of the repairs I can do myself…$4000 plus repairs is not happening that’s almost 951 money. Anyway, does anyone see anything that scares them in the above, and how hard is it to fix the wastegate?

Thanks

[Pat]

First remember you are buying a 20 year old car, it will not have that new car smell .
Most repairs you can do yourself if you dont mind skinning knuckles and the car doesnt mind you calling it bad names after it hurts you. But how is the turbo leaking? If it is leaking oil that must be fixed soon or the turbo will not get enogh lubrication and will either seize or wear itself out. Also where does the oil filter housing leak from? If it's leaking from the oil cooler lines new washers will work if the thread hasn't been stripped from the hollow bolts holding the oil lines on. How is the waste gate loose? There are only two mounts, one on the torque tube, and one too the exhaust. If the torque tube mount is loose it's difficult to get at. You can also post in the 931 forum, you'll have some guru's answering you there

[gohim]

Looks to me like the cost of repairs quoted by the shop that did the inspetion are excessive. $800 to rebuild the steering rack, you can buy a rebuilt one foe $300-$400, and install it yourself in less than an hour. $120 to replace the alternator bushings? You're talking about $10 in bushings, what's the other $110 for? The turbo is another matter. There are a bunch of single use seals and gaskets in there. Pulling the turbo, and replacing them will take a full day, and the parts will cost over $100 (it's been a while since I bought these parts).

$4000 for that car? The book price is only around $2000. For $4000 the car should not need anything. IMHO the Seller is asking way too much. If the car's cosmetic condition is that good, and it has not been recently had body work and been repainted, add up the cost of the repairs, split it in half, and that amount from what the guy is asking for the car. That will give you a fairer idea of what the car is worth, BUT I WOULD RUN AWAY.

[Cbass]

Yeup. Offer to pay $3000 if he replaces the turbo and steering. For $3000 you can get a pristine condition 931, low miles, babied, the whole 9 yards.

[Rick MacLaren]

Depends...

I'd pay $3000 for a pristine body with crap engine and tranny...maybe more. But don't lose a gem for mere engine and transmission foibles. Any engine part can be fixed. It's the chassis, body and interior that's worth the money at resale time and especially important for collectors.

[TroyDest]

$4000 is too much. Most of the repairs are pretty simple, but pulling the turbo and rebuilding it are really a pain. I got my '82 931 two years ago for $3700 and that was too much. I was desperate and I really love these cars. I had to replace all the turbo and exhaust gaskets as soon as I got it. It took forever and a lot of beer; and I consider myself a pretty good mechanic. If the turbo is just leaking a little oil past the seals, you can leave it for a while if you remove the catalytic converter so it won't get plugged up. Chances are that the cat is already gutted though from burning out so it would be ok; but you definitely need to check it by looking inside it from the rear flange. You can fix the wastegate gaskets and seals pretty easy (replace the $50 diaphragm while you're at it).

If you really like the car, the body & interior are excellent, and the seller will pay for any emissions-related repairs and inspection, I would offer him $3000. You didn't mention what year it is; the '81 and '82 are worth a little more 'cause of the digital ignition and upgraded turbo.

Let us know what happens. -Troy

[numbers]

Offer $2000 as is. Show him the list of problems. Most of them you can fix yourself. The oil filter housing is either leaking at the filter seal, the gasket to the block or around the bango bolts. If it is the filter seal, replace the filter. If it is the gasket to the block, which I believe is an O ring, but I could be wrong, it should be easy to replace. If it is around the banjo bolts, remove them, remove the aluminum washers that act as seals, and take them to a hardware store and replace them with copper washers of the same size. They will seal better. Probably about 50 cents for the pair.

All turbos leak some, usually around the oil feed mounting flange. These bolts can be retorqued, but they are difficult to reach. Tightening the feed lines will help also. Even a new turbo will leak some, so just tighten everything up and you should be able to live with it.

I would be really suprised if the steering rack needs to be rebuilt. Check the steering and see if it is loose. If so, it could be loose wheel bearings, worn U joints in the steering shaft, or tie rod ends, None of these are overly expensive.

If it is the rubber mounting bushings on the alternator, replace them. If it is the internal bearings, replace the alternator.

If the rear wheel bearings are making noise, they are not too hard to replace. If they are not making noise, leave them alone.

Just tighten the mounting bolts on the wastegate, it should take about ten minutes, and don't worry about the plugs. All of these cars use some oil, they are Porsches, and are designed that way. The mechanic that checked the car out must not be a porsche mechanic.

[Gotrob]

It was a Porsche mechanic, and they do work on 944/924's, although they did say that they don’t see many of the 924's anymore. The mechanic downplayed the significance of the oil on the plugs, but wanted it to be clear that it was there.

I don't expect the new car smell, but for $4000 it would be nice

The car is a 1980 California model with rear drums, but the interior is in very good condition. No rips in the seats, all power works, but carpet is faded.

Thanks for the input, and I would appreciate more. I'll come up with a price I can live with and see what he says.


[ This Message was edited by: Gotrob on 2002-05-08 06:49 ]

[Cbass]

The real costs to look at here are the cost of replacing the turbo, and rebuilding the motor. If you plan on owning this car for a long time, then you will need to do both at some point. Look at the records and find out if and when the turbo was last replaced, and if it has had the engine rebuilt.

$4000 is reasonable IF it has a fresh motor, new turbo, extra wheels + tires, and is as you described, in excellent condition.

If it has a newly rebuilt motor, tell the guy you will pay 3000 as is. A new turbo should be about $800 or so.

[Gotrob]

Just an update...I offered $3000, and apparently someone offered more than me the day I had the prepurchase inspection done. The owner didn't want a bidding war, but he is sending me a check for what I paid to have the car looked at. I didn't ask, he offered.

The search continues!!

If anyone would like to see the pics on what I missed out on...
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/majorj/lst2?.tok=bc3xXv8Az.e3KNnQ&.dir=/1980+Porsche+924+Turbo+(model+931)&.src=ph

[John Brown]

As stated elsewhere earlier today at greate length (931 section?). Just CAN NOT understand $4000 for a 931. Period. 3k is pushing it. You should be able to find a clean 924S for 4K or 5k or slightly more with roughly the same power output. 8 years newer and a raft of people who are knowledgable about the 2.5L engine.

[gohim]

Thank the Seller for returning what you paid for the inspection, and be happy that you dodged a bullet.

Look for a nice 924S, or a 944. They are out there. There are a bunch of them out here for under $1000, if you want to do a clutch replacement, head repair after a broken timing belt (I would buy another head, it's cheaper), or some bodywork (not my first choice).

You should be able to find a nice or very decent car for less than $4000.

[larso]

Pat from Edmonton, I tried to send you an email but it wouldn't go through, do you have an alternate email address? Thanks!

Lars.