924Board.org

Chrenan · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 3903 Location: Canada

924 vs. 944 Turbo (aka 951)

OK, here is an answer to the question nobody asked, how does a 924 compare with a 951. I picked up a 1987 951 last fall, worked on it over the winter/summer and finally got it on the road at the end of the summer. What follows is an informal comparison made up of random musings on the 924 and 951 in various categories.

First, a few words about the cars in question:

The 1980 924 I’ve had for 6 years, almost every mechanical piece on the car has been replaced, and I’ve rebuilt the engine with some extra oomph (details in signature below). There is no sound deadening material in the cabin, thin carpets, lightweight seats, rear seat delete, stiffened suspension, harnesses, roll bar, etc. It is setup exactly the way I want it and I am very comfortable pushing it hard.

The 1987 951 is a 110,000 kms example imported from Japan. It was bone stock when I got it. The only modifications I’ve made from stock are removal of the AC, swapping in a manual steering rack (new) and associated bits, and solid upper strut mounts (much cheaper than stock units). All other work has been maintenance related. Every vacuum hose has been replaced (big and small), the venturi delete has been done, all coolant hoses replaced and a new radiator went in. Oil pan gasket has been changed, new motor mounts, new koni adjustables all round, hatch seal, cap, rotor, thermostat, temp sensors, turbo coolant pump, plugs, engine bay fuel lines, etc, etc, etc. And of course, just for gohim, the full front engine service (belts, rollers, tensioner, seals, water pump).

Working on the cars:

Nothing will make working on the 924 seem more simple and enjoyable than working on a 951.

It is diabolically tight in the 951 engine bay. You can’t get at anything without removing something else. Even with the AC and power steering deleted on my car, the engine bay is still immensely crowded. You need three elbows per arm and a wide variety of ratchet extensions, u-joints, wobble extensions and a dose of good luck to get anything done. My extendable mechanics’ magnet and swear vocabulary have been heavily taxed since getting the 951.

The level of complexity jumps exponentially when dealing with the 951. More belts, more sensors, more electronics, more hoses, bigger everything (brakes, radiator, etc). With added complexity comes added expense. End of story.

Its not all bad of course, some little details make the 951 less frustrating than the 924. Whichever German Genius decided to move the relay board and fuse box from under the steering wheel to the engine bay (beside the wiper motor) deserves a Nobel Prize. You mean I can change or test a relay without having to lie on my back upside down in the footwall of the driver’s seat? Great!!!

Driving the cars:

The 951 feels very modern compared to the 924. The updated dash plays a role, as does the EFI. The heater produces masses of warmth on demand, something I’ve never been able to accomplish with my 924. When I drive the 924 it feels like I am driving a car that has earned its collector car insurance. When I drive the 951 I can’t believe it is 21 years old.

The 951, even a plain-jane base unmodified version like mine, is a fast car. Its not just the power, because there isn’t that much by modern standards (220hp/240torque). 0-60 was something around 6 seconds when new. All I can think is there has been designed into the 951 some unique mix of peak torque and well chosen gear ratios that is beyond my layman understanding.

Amazingly, the acceleration through 4th gear feels as ferocious as through 3rd and 2nd gear. And, my god, those gear ratios. 2nd tops out at 120 km/h. That means 3rd, 4th and 5th are just there to determine how long your stay in jail will be. A full boost run in 3rd gear is something to behold, easily worth the purchase price of the car and the aggravation of wrenching on it.

The 951 is a big, curvy girl. You can feel the weight. Not so much when you flatten the gas pedal or brake pedal, both pedals have a “hand of God” feel about them. But when carving corners you start to realize that Colin Chapman was correct, weight ruins fun.

Don’t get me wrong, it still handles sublimely, and compared to an “every day car” it might as well be an F1 car. However, it doesn’t talk to me like the 924 does. Maybe because it actually has more grip from the wider tires? Maybe because it still has the “soft” factory setup that I have worked out of the 924? Maybe I don’t trust the 951 enough to push it yet? I don’t know. The 924 squirms and squeals when pushed, it communicates constantly, it warns, it reminds, it never scolds. Even if I duplicated the work done to the 924 on the 951, I’m not sure it could be the same dance partner.

Character of the cars:

The 924 wins. It just does. Hands down. No contest.

My 924 barks when you start the engine. It blubs. It chortles. It gurgles.

It makes 2 distinctly different noises, one below 3500 and one above.

You have to flog it to go fast, but it soaks it up like an eager sparring partner.

With no catalytic convertor and a muffler that clearly doesn’t muffle much anymore, it sets off car alarms in underground parking lots.

Its an old car, and it feels like it, and that’s OK.

Nobody knows what it is, which makes it super desirable to me.

Long live the 924.
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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI

Kudos! Well done!

Best line in the hole piece: "3rd, 4th and 5th are just there to determine how long your stay in jail will be"

And I like the conclusion as well. If I ever get around to writing my book, I may ask to include this

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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

Chrenan · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 3903 Location: Canada

Thanks Dan, as long as I get a signed copy of your book and a credit its yours!

I'm working on my next article which will compare my daily driver Impreza with my beat-up and seldom used F-150. The Coles Notes version will be: Impreza is good at getting groceries, F-150 is good at taking crap to the dump.
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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

Rasta Monsta · Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11723 Location: PacNW

Shaggy wants to visit your yellow car. Maybe next summer. . .
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Toofah King Bad

WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

Chrenan · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 3903 Location: Canada

It would be a good meetup, you'd just have to let me catch up on the straight sections...
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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

Rasta Monsta · Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11723 Location: PacNW

You could always bring it to a track day down here. . .you are welcome to stay with us.

Word is, we're starting time trials next year!

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Toofah King Bad

WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

Chrenan · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 3903 Location: Canada

That would be an epic journey in the little 924. At least I'd know there would be a set of tools there if anything went wrong!
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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

Rasta Monsta · Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11723 Location: PacNW

An excellent set. . .my dad is a TV repair man.
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Toofah King Bad

WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

Chrenan · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 3903 Location: Canada

Spicoli!
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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

Mahatma Gadhni · Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 162 Location: Croatia

A great article! I really enjoyed reading it.
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1984 924 2.0 NA

Slam · Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:33 am Post subject:

Good writeup, Chrenan. Now you need a 944 NA for days when you don't feel like driving either car.

One thing - how about a word about clutch feel? My 924 clutch seems heavier/bulkier than my 944. I do agree about the 924 having a more charming personality. However, some days you don't want a car that won't shut up!
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'84 944 - kid blew motor
'83 944 - resting comfortably. For 12 years
'87 944 - sideswiped by trucker
'80 924 - gone
'78 924 - gone
'77 924 - rusting comfortably

Brockoli · Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:38 am Post subject:

great article, it was like i was readng the excellence mag that comes to my door every month.

this was just the break i needed from studying. I also like my 924 more now!!!
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'80 924 M471,Wideband O2, Full coilover susp,23/19 sways,Bilstiens,KLA Strut Brace,Roll Bar,Test Pipe,BBS RS, Willwood BBK

25% of a '87 944 Chumpcar http://straightpipe.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2454

'79 924 Sebring Edition(Sitting)

Chrenan · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 3903 Location: Canada

pocketscience · Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:42 am Post subject: Re: 924 vs. 944 Turbo (aka 951)

Chrenan · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 3903 Location: Canada

Here is a "before" picture, this is from the seller I got the car from. I'll try to post a new one later showing the relay/fuse box up close. Its the black box in the top right corner of the picture with the K&N sticker on top.

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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan