924Board.org

AppleBit · Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 1516 Location: Minneapolis, MN

\\\ Continued from 'Bad News'... ///

What is the firing order of the Porsche 924?

1, 3, 4, 2 right?

Well, looked at the cam tonight on both the 924 and the 931.

When the engine is on TDC:

#1 / Fire #3 / Compression #4 / Intake #2 / Exhaust

You need to wire up the spark & injectors for each coil as such:

Coil #1: 1 & 2
Coil #2: 3 & 4

So the same goes for the fuel injectors.

This might be it folks. Something that so many people have overlooked.

I wired it for the spark properly now, but the injectors won't be done until Sunday. I'll take the car to the dyno's again and see what happens.

BTW: The cam timing was also off by 1 tooth. Thanks guys for telling me to check it again... I would have, and did... but I have had professionals do this for me multiple times. I have a pissed off, yet happy feeling going on right now.
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Classic British Sports Car Restoration v6 + v8 Engine Conversion Swaps

Porsche 924 Wide Body LS1 Corvette 500 Horsepower Engine

Min · Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:59 pm Post subject:

so, does it run any better?

Min
_________________
Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.

AppleBit · Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 1516 Location: Minneapolis, MN

Straight From Electromotive TEC 3r pdf manual:

Engine: Honda 4-cylinder
Firing Order: 1-3-4-2
Coil Firing Order: A1 B1 A1 B1
Engine Firing Order: 1 3 4 2
Cylinders 1&4 are paired to Coil A1. Cylinders 2&3 are paired to Coil B1

(Still looking, but I assume the injectors are going to be the same story)
_________________
Classic British Sports Car Restoration v6 + v8 Engine Conversion Swaps

Porsche 924 Wide Body LS1 Corvette 500 Horsepower Engine

AppleBit · Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 1516 Location: Minneapolis, MN

Min · Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject:

Tuning is the best part. Good luck to you.

Min
_________________
Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.

endwrench · Joined: 07 Dec 2002 Posts: 1631 Location: Victor, Montana

Hope this works out for you but I have to add, I have my injectors wired into a single wire wich fires all the injectors just once per 2 revolutions and it idles like a dream and runs like a banshee.

Also, the Tec-3 Honda data is correct about how the coils should be routed.

Todd
_________________
'79 924NA. Rebuilt 9.5:1, MSDS header, Mega Squirt Injection, MJLJ-EDIS Ignition, 1.6L Whipple Charger and Intercooler, 10lbs Boost, 944 Trans, Custom HD Clutch.
"simsport" said....superchargers are better than turbos its official!....

AppleBit · Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 1516 Location: Minneapolis, MN

leadfoot · Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject:

Not sure I understand you jon...
your system is setup in waste spark right?? so opposing cylinders are firing at the same time...
If you fire on the intake stroke you'll blow the intake boot right off... but that would be assuming your injectors are batch firing like endwrench is talking about... I thought you would be running sequential....
I would seriously be verifying the TDC marks on your cam and crank, hope these aren't set for a missing tooth. If it is then your advance tables will all be out by the same amount. 32 teeth = 11.25 degrees right??
Leadfoot
_________________
1981 ROW 924 Turbo -
carbon fiber GT mish mash
LS1 conversion in progress...

AppleBit · Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 1516 Location: Minneapolis, MN

Racing · Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 374

Apple.
I´m with raceboy here.
Having read the entire thread,my first thought was timing or lack of ign energy.

So..
Verify like raceboy wrote.All stand alones work the same,and there isn´t an engine in existance that´ll deliver without timing in the right spot.
I don´t care how much fancy parts you throw at it.

Again.
The basics,and frankly speaking...read up.
Reasons are plentifold.
Cause..what labours WILL break down..and in such a scenario i for one at least think that YOU should be the one capable of repairing it.

The different trigger setups around ain´t all that hard when you just accept that the manual is like a class back in school revisited.
Just do it bro...and be done with it.

For the record.Nope.If engine sounds as it should(mechanically) i´d say that it´s probably JUST the timing that needs to be adjusted.

As far as ignition energy.
If you run the coil that electromotive recomends..my bet is that there´s a table that says "coil charge time" as well.(probably under ign outputs or similar)
Just look the table up to make sure that the charge time is somewhere between 2 and 3 milliseconds.

AppleBit · Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 1516 Location: Minneapolis, MN

BAD NEWS

Nope.

Car produces 107 whp. (and can't beat my 4wd s10)

Anyone want to buy an engine? It is cursed.

Sell it real cheap.

No, I am not joking.
_________________
Classic British Sports Car Restoration v6 + v8 Engine Conversion Swaps

Porsche 924 Wide Body LS1 Corvette 500 Horsepower Engine

morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 9095 Location: Romania

maby you should host one of those partys where lost of members come and in the end of the day after 1 Kg of meat and 10 beers per person the engine problem is solved. maby some dude will come up with some ideeas and you can benefit from your work.
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AppleBit · Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 1516 Location: Minneapolis, MN

Would be nice, but I've paid tens of thousands of dollars (and I am not joking) to have people try and find the problem.

Nothing.

So, its v8 time.

simsport · Joined: 06 Nov 2002 Posts: 573 Location: UK Warrington

Hi here
Can I ask. Is the megasquit sequential or block fire?
If sequential then you would wire the injectors up differently to block.
Sorry if this was already dealt with in the thread!

Also what type of throttle pot is used?
I made a lot less power until I realised the pot I was using was not linear . As soon as I went to a linear pot up came the power.

Seems a shame to drop this work after all the cash you have spent.

First principles always seem to help me ie

Mechanicals ok, compression etc, fuel pump, coil/coil pack ok then....

Good fuel and signal....right time.
Good spark and trigger..right time.
Valves open/shut good seal, right time.

Some things give themselves away, such as power dropping away gradualy as revs increase...almost always fuel shortage, check pump , check injectors/map.
Sudden power drop...almost always ignition..... but can be det in a boosted engine.

Sorry again if all this has been dealt with, hate to see a good man defeated!

Cheers
Simon
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Blown is always best!

endwrench · Joined: 07 Dec 2002 Posts: 1631 Location: Victor, Montana

Simon,
He is running an Electromotive Tec 3 setup and I believe he is running sequential.

Applebit,
I'm with Simon in that I hate to see you give up on this thing but it is your money (and sanity

) so best of Luck on the V8 project! Hope your not opening another can of worms.

I really wish I lived closer to you so I could help you sort this out. I have no doubt it can be done and I love a challenge like this. Makes me want to buy your motor just to do it.

Todd
_________________
'79 924NA. Rebuilt 9.5:1, MSDS header, Mega Squirt Injection, MJLJ-EDIS Ignition, 1.6L Whipple Charger and Intercooler, 10lbs Boost, 944 Trans, Custom HD Clutch.
"simsport" said....superchargers are better than turbos its official!....