924Board.org

[kaffine]

About how much am I looking at to setup a 24 or 44 with good saftey equipment? Roll cage, 6pt harness, racing seat, hans device, fire extinguisher ect. I'm trying to decide if I want a dedicated track car or just equip my daily driver with some saftey equipment and use it. Thanks.
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80 924
80 931

The best desciption of an atom boils down to something unknown is doing we don't know what.
Sir Arthur Eddington

[924RACR]

Far more than a 924 is worth, and if you're going whole hog, possibly more than a 944 is worth!! Also, some stuff is only required for racing - though wise to have in DE. As some have pointed out, the car hits just as hard regardless of if you're racing or not!

Clearly, bare minimum to actually be more safe than stock would be basic 6-point cage, 6-point harness, race seat, window nets, and fire bottle.

Here's a run-down:

Cage - $1000-2000, depending on source, installation costs, etc. I recommend the best option as a custom-made/designed, locally installed cage. That'd typically cost no more than $2000. You can spend about $900 for a mail-order cage from OG Racing (www.ogracing.com), which I do recommend as a second option, but then you've got to pay for installation, plus it'll need much in the way of upgrades to be as good as a custom cage. Pay now or pay later! Don't forget SFI-approved padding as well - budget $50 or so for that. Don't use the cheap pipe-insulation stuff, it's no help in a real impact.

6-point harness - you can spend a lot, if you want, but there's no need to. $65-120, Racer's Wholesale - http://www.racerwholesale.com/ Don't forget you'll need one for an instructor too.

Racing seat - much debate going on here currently about what the options are for lateral impact support - a topic near and dear to my heart! FIA approval is nice, aluminum circle track seats (referred to as rib-crushers by some, due to design) tend to not be the thing (even though I have one, I'm looking to replace it), so to find a decent seat... hmm... OG Racing, again, has good stuff, and apparently they will soon be shipping the Sparco Circuit seat, with head restraint, for about $650. As with the harnesses, you'll need a decent one for your instructor too - might be able to use one of the cheaper ones here, around $300 (again, Sparco from OG).

H+N (Head and Neck) restraint - Much debate here. I'm not impressed by the webbing based devices, so you're down to the HANS or ISAAC. As some know, I use the ISAAC and swear by it after having tested it - the hard way! It is believed to offer better protection than the HANS in a lateral impact, but no crash test for lateral have been run yet on either - the test procedure is still being developed.
ISAAC device: $725+ - http://www.isaacdirect.com/
HANS Device: $865+ - http://www.hansdevice.com/

Fire bottle/system - Depends if you want a bottle or a system. For a (hand-held) bottle, like $20 at Home Depot. Probably adequate for DE, just mount in reach. For racing, no question you really want a fire system (plumbed in) - in the neighborhood of $400+. Some options here, main ones being size (you want about 5-lbs for 2 nozzles, 10lbs for 3) and type of agent... Halon is great but expensive, some chemicals (dry-chem) will corrode everything (scrap the car - why throw the switch?) or AFFF, which I believe is less harmful (to either your car or the environment. OG Racing or Pegasus: http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/

Window Nets - cheap, about $20 each, plus another $25 for installation kit. I don't think you run in DE with these, though. For racing, you'd need one on your window, plus you may wish to have a second auxiliary net inside the car (different style, as now seen in NASCAR) for internal restraint.

Kill Switch - cheap, no more than $20, if desired (only required for racing).

HTH...
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[AndyFranklin]

A few notes - Halon will no longer be available after this year. Getting refills is already problematic. All the dry-chems are corrosive. Expect to do a lot of work cleaning the car - including doing a proable engine rebuild. Even knowing that I've been amazed at the spots where some chem has sat on my project.

There is a new system that is user-maintainable as a liquid/foam. The name is escaping me right now. Something like "FyreSafe".

The quote I got for a custom cage was $2000-$2500. I should be able to get it done for just materials through the guy I'm crewing for - fortunately!

[John Brown]

I wanna jump in here with a little different bias. Don't know if you are DE or race; I know that what Vaughan said is true, "you hit just as hard". However, if you can be completely objective (many people are not, usually) about the hazard exposure thus the risk involved DE just does not require the outlay as race.

The reason is that there are 'operating rules' in DE that go far to mitigate the hazard, the number of expected occurances, and therefor the risk. Lower risk to start means less outlay to mitigate to outcome of the remaining incidents.

A few examples:

Cage: The 924/944 is observed in practice to be a very strong shell. For DE I absolutely do not think a cage is required in this vehicle. Even the roll bar option is, I think, mostly a place to mount the harness. Installation of a cage makes it very very hard to have a street car that is as safe as before you installed the cage. If you do install a cage, I agree with Vaughan. Do it yourself and the storebought makes some sense. If you are going to need to pay for an install then just get a custom.

Harness: I won't go into all the discussio here, suffice to say I think for DE a 5 point is adequate and much more user friendly.

Seats: Required for any harness or the harness will not work. The stock Porsche style (read wide) integral headrest will not allow shoulder harness to function properly and reliably. My solution in the many many DE cars with this setup is to use the stock harness also.

Head/neck restraint: Racing yes, DE (in 924/944) no. I did download the SAE report and it was very favorable to the HANS. Like Vaughan I also like the Isacc.

Fire stuff: For DE is a stock automobile this is absolutely not a safety requirement. Everyone is pictureing being trapped in a burning car upside down. Not a rational risk to expect. Racing, maybe. Now, does a car burn now and then? Yep. And it almost always turns out to be either modified fuel system, a turbo (VERY VERY hot). Even then, its not safety, its trying to save the car. Still, some DE programs require a fire extinghisher.

Window nets: Many DE programs do not allow window nets. The safety gained by having signaled passing at designated points is lost and all you gain is retention for the outrageous rollovers that are almost always avoidable in DE if people driver reasonably. For Racing nets are required.

Kill switch: DE not required. This is the reason the factory shutoff system for the fuel should be kept functional.

Anyway, my 2 cents. I know many many will not agree because we all tend to be less than comletely rational and objective about many hazards.
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John
80 931 - #931 44Cup
99 Escalade - tows track cars
gone but not forgotten: original 924.org car - 82

[Joes924Racer]

I got a harnes in stalled .. what do you do with the leftover strap
in front from the y shoulder straps theres alot left. cut it and sew it shut or just fold it over and tape it. Maybe fold it up then stitch it to the other.

Gwt a racing supply catalog I have one from a company called
pegasus. They got all that stuff in there including on/off and
scca decals for your sports car club of america and other decals
deopending on what you decide to do like full race or solo events.
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1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.