924Board.org

[924RACR]

An FYI, I just put in my $0.04 to the Club Racing Board, requesting a reclassification of the 2.0L 924 from ITA to ITB. I cc'd Jeremy and Ryoji on it, but it would help to have any and all support from other SCCA members on this. If you care about having a good place to race your 924, email the Club Racing Board (don't forget to include your member number) expressing support for this initiative, please!

Here's the text of the request:

I would like to request the Comp Board consider reclassifying the 76-82 2.0L Porsche 924 to ITB (from ITA). Both by my direct, anecdotal experiences (and those of other 924 drivers), and by a quantitative analysis of performance specs of this car and other ITA and ITB cars, I: A) don't see how the 2.0L 924 can be remotely competitive in ITA, and B) don't see how it could be overly competitive in ITB. Notable comparisons for ITA are the Saturn SC2, at 2300lbs and 1.9L DOHC (which is not overly competitive) and the Nissan 240SX at 2530lbs (still lighter than the 924) and 2.4L. The latter appears to me to be a more potent comparison, because while it is competitive in the class, and also has disc/disc brakes, SOHC, and RWD like the 924, it has the advantage of EFI (reprogrammable, unlike the 924's CIS) and another 0.4L. Both of those cars also have a slightly higher compression than the 924 at 9.5:1 (vs. 9.0:1).

Comparisons in ITB that I feel would be most direct would be the Volvo 142, 242 and BMW 2002, since they are RWD. They also all have Bosch CIS like the 924, as I recall. The 242 weighs in at 2780lbs, 2.2L SOHC, 9.3:1 compression, and is moderately competitive (not dominant). The 142 is very solid in class, wins often, and is at 2640 lbs, 2.0L OHV, 10.5:1 compression. The 2002 is at only 2280 lbs, 2.0L SOHC, 8.5:1 CR.

The final point of comparison comes from the recent classification of the 924 to F Production Limited-Prep. The car was classified at 2200lbs, vs. its ITCS weight of 2600lbs. By comparison with the rest of its LP ITA cousins, those cars are generally classed within 100lbs of their ITCS weight. Given that Prod is a competition-adjusted class, we can expect that the Comp Board believes the 924 will be competitive with FP at this weight. However, I do not expect that the Comp Board would be so rash in classifying a "new" car as to bring in a potential "class-killer" by specifying the weight too low; rather I would expect that the car would be brought in potentially heavy, with the opportunity to adjust weight downward after a year or so if shown to be necessary.

Therefore, given the disparity in classifications shown above, and the spread of the competitive field, I have trouble understanding how the car could expect to be seen as remotely competitive in IT with its current classification. I would therefore like to ask that the car be reclassified to ITB.

I am attaching a spreadsheet of data (technical specs) which I believe to be relevant to the question of performance and classification. If there is any additional data which I could gather and provide to support this discussion, please feel free to let me know. Additionally, I am copying two other SCCA members and IT 924 owners who wish to add their support to this request for reclassification.

I look forward to hearing your response.

Vaughan Scott
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[ryoji]

Good one!

I wonder it too much if you ask a weight adjustment as well at the same time?

They should have my support letter of yours with my membership number by now.
_________________
R.I.P.:a 924 ITA race car

[924RACR]

I didn't, because they haven't agreed to do weight adjustments in IT yet. So far, the only method of changing the competitiveness of an IT car (per the SCCA) is to reclassify it. It'll be interesting to see a response, if any.
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[ryoji]

Vaughan, I think you get the same from SCCA.

[jjadczak]

It may sound like a canned response but they won't react unless they have some imput from us racers. We need to relate to them WHY this is so important for them to make the change on our behelf. Even if they recieve our four letters, if they recieved NO letters than they would not be compelled to act on our behelf. I think we can all come up with very compelling and moving arguments as to why they should reclassify us.

I believe that the SCCA can no longer over look any racers requests. I think their finally learning that their not the only game in town. I think we have a great shot at moving to ITB. For example, recall the recent history of having SCCA allow the 924 to be in Prod once again. It only took a handful of 924 owners to formally go through the chain of command and basically SCCA rubber stamped it and fastracked it into the upcoming GCR.

I feel good about this...

Jeremy Jadczak

[jjadczak]

I just recieved this...

Dear Jeremy,



We received your letter on February 4, 2004, and forwarded it to the
Club Racing Board and the appropriate advisory committee for their
consideration.



Your input will be placed on the next available Club Racing Board
agenda. The CRB generally meets once a month, however some issues
require additional consideration that may include a request for more
information from you, the advisory committee, a manufacturer, and/or
the
membership at large. An official response to your inquiry will be
published in Fastrack News, which you receive with your SportsCar
magazine. A PDF version of the Fastrack News is also posted on
www.scca.com for your convenience.



As a member-driven organization, we appreciate your interest and
involvement.



Sincerely,

John



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Jadczak [mailto:jjadczak@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 10:24 AM
To: CompBoard
Cc: jjadczak@nahb.com
Subject: Porsche 924 Reclassification from ITA to ITB


My father and I race a Porsche 924 in the ITA class.
We're both new to this type of racing and decided to
race a Porsche 924. After we got through our drivers
schools and obtained our licenses, we soon found that
once out there at full speed with other ITA class cars
we were woefully outclassed and underpowered. I am
therefore requesting that the SCCA Competition Board
consider reclassifying the 76-82 2.0L Porsche 924 to
ITB.

There are several reasons why I think we need to do
this. First, a random sample review of lap times
shows that the Porsche 924 is not remotely close to
staying with the top ranking class cars. These
following tracks are the ones we compete on. At
Summit Point Motorsports Park in West Virginia the top
placing ITA cars run 1:28's, the top ITB cars run
1:31's, and our best laps are around 1:36's. At
Watkins Glen on the Long Course the top ITA cars are
running 2:21's, the top ITB cars run 2:24's and our
best laps are 2:35's. At Pocono running the 2.5 mile
road course, the top ITA cars are turning 2:04's, the
top ITB cars are turning 2:10's and were turning
2:17's. Finally, at Beaverun the top ITA cars run
1:09's, the top ITB cars are turning 1:11's and were
turning 1:16's.

Second were concerned because while the Competition
Board is considering proposals for to reclassify cars,
former ITS cars may be reclassified as ITA cars, thus
further moving us down the order. If the SCCA
Competition Board, further decides to re-align some of
the Improved Touring classes, and the Porsche 924 is overlooked, we may
find ourselves struggling just to keep up with the mid pack and slower
ITA cars.

Finally, the only way for us to keep up with even
mid-pack ITA cars is to cheat. We believe that we
have currently exhausted all of the reasonable cost
options available to us that would ensure that our car
is legal, as well as reliable. We want to continue to
run in the SCCA, but with a limited racing budget were beginning to
second guess why we even bother to show up to an SCCA sanctioned event.
We do not want to continue to run in the ITA class when we know that
unless we cheat we wouldn't even begin to be a mid-pack car, when there
are viable alternatives
available to us.

I hope the Competition Board takes these views into consideration. I
thank you for the opportunity to present my case. Please feel free to
call on me should you need any further information or have any
questions
or concerns. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,

Jeremy Jadczak

[ryoji]

Don't I need to have 15x6 wheels, if 924 is reclassified?
_________________
R.I.P.:a 924 ITA race car

[924RACR]

That might be a consequence. Cheaper, though! Also, then we can all add more spacers to get the track back up there...
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[Neil924]

Could someone who doesn't race, write a letter? Perhaps say that he/she would like to enter a 924 in an event if the reclassification goes ahead.
I think large numbers would help your cause greatly.

[924RACR]

They will only listen to SCCA members - hence why you should include your membership number when writing.
_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[Neil924]

OK. Maybe you could call a few secret supporters of this idea. There must be racers out there that think this is a good idea even if they don't own a 924 or even race in the class. I'm just trying to give you guys some ideas.
I don't like the thought of people trying to have fun and rules getting in the way. I hope this all works out for the best.