924Board.org

81turbo · Guest

DWAK you have solved the mystery! HMMM anyone selling a Canadian special 931?

Vince Ponz · Guest

These are actual runs I made at Bridgehamton race track a while ago. Car was empty and I had on my carbs, cam, springs, sways, etc. At the end of the straight which starts to go downhill I could only manage 116mph. At about 6000 rpms with a 4 speed on the car.
I dont know why but at that speed I started to hear sounds like rocks hitting the pan. It might have been. I could not run any faster and maybe because I ran out of track.
Might have been detonation. Never blew the engine though.

Rick MacLaren · Guest

81 Turbo, you haven't asked me any questions about my setup whatsoever. You've got a spec book and your own opinions and you've not yet been interested (even a little teeny bit) in the kind of setup I've had in the 924.

Thing is, I am speaking here to other people who have modified their cars. Hence, they know speed is influenced positively by these modifications. Far from being ignorant drinking buddies, these are people who have observed comparable deviations from stock performance. Deviations in top speed (easier to make than deviations in accelleration) of 20 KPH on top end are not at all out of line with reality.

A 4 speed going 116 MPH, does not surprise me. That is 186 KPH.

Now, run that 4 speed up to 6500.

Now, add a 5th gear.

Now, run it up to 6500 again.

[ This Message was edited by: Rick MacLaren on 2002-08-30 05:26 ]

81turbo · Guest

Adding a 5th gear is great, but Lizard said he got 137MPH "easily" in his 4-speed. If Vince could only get 116MPH carbs and all 137 "Easily" sounds like TALL tale. I have never said that it wasn't possible just the fact that most modifications shy of forced induction yield little on the 924. Heavily modified maybe but like you said lets get back to original question. Top speed on the car is 125mph unmodified do we agree on that? From there the variables are to vast to measure. I am only saying that the 924 in any form unless it produces more than 154HP (924S) should have a lower top speed (key word "should" we must take into consideration that Canada = fast).

[ This Message was edited by: 81turbo on 2002-08-30 02:01 ]

Rick MacLaren · Guest

That's a separate matter from my '79 five speed isn't it? Or the more common other 5 speeds out there. And I don't have any idea what has been done to his car - but I also know I don't get brownie points for shutting him down or calling him a liar. I do know my car, and my observations. And I know that the whole point of my spending money on my 924 over the past 5 years has been to increase speed. I think I've achieved that end, despite these specious 'proofs' to the contrary.

If anyone gets a radar gun from a club, it will be very very interesting, I believe, to have a look at how our cars deviate from stock performance figures. I think we'll find that most of the cars here widely exceed stock performance numbers.

I think we'll see that the tranny is one of the primary limits on top speed. And a lot of NA's out there are much faster than the stock performance figures show.

[ This Message was edited by: Rick MacLaren on 2002-08-30 02:18 ]

81turbo · Guest

So you say everything you are fighting for is purely speculation? Fair enough, I whole-heartedly agree. I am not calling anyone a Liar I am just pointing out the vast difference between personal experience and known facts. Even with your 5-speed and seemingly mysterious modifications you would need a 50 mile straight to get up there if it could

[ This Message was edited by: 81turbo on 2002-08-30 02:31 ]

Lizard · Guest

rick you have bad luck with people on this board first first gohim now 81turbo, but what i dont understand is how you people need proof in my car in 4th at 6500rpm the car is as smooth as a wistle and the engine sounds fine, no vibration just glued to the road if you don't believe the speed i have gotten too who cares I never saw the speedo in the other car and my speedo is off by quite abit and i know this, that is what my friend who was driving the other car had said we were doing. I honestly couldn't give 2 shits if you claimed something I wouldn't dispute it or be confrentational, but hey i guess i am just easy going and don't go around trying to pick fights

Rick MacLaren · Guest

You said: "So you say everything you are fighting for is purely speculation?"

No. I didn't say this at all.

You said: "I am not calling anyone a Liar"

Indirectly, you are. You said it was a 'tall tale' - an uncourageous way of calling someone a liar.

You said: "mysterious modifications "

They're not mysterious at all. I gave them straight up. Just read the post. And what your 'analysis' fails to account for are vital weight, RPM range, exhaust flow, a non-stock spoiler, and other contextual characteristics that any engineer/scientist using empirical measures on velocity would consider before they compared a test of a stock machine with a trial run of a non-stock machine.

You said: "50 mile straight to get up there if it could"

Actually it was much much less than 50 miles. Still, you concede that with a long distance it is possible. I said nothing about how long it took me to get there. So what's your beef with me?

It may surprise you to know that an '80 931 Turbo can be easily beaten by a Volkswagon Scrirocco with a 1.8 litre engine. Obin Robinson did it to me when I first got my car. So here was my car, forced air induction, better specs than Obin by far! His car had a rated horsepower much less than mine! Get out your spec book, and tell me what's a Scirocco? 90HP? 110 HP? How did he do it? Mine was dyno'd that week, stock, at 146 HP. That's remarkable for an engine that was rebuilt 7 years earlier.

Now, how did Obin manage that feat? Was he drunk? Am I lying to make a point? Did he defy the laws of physics?

No. Obin read everything from this board that he could. He lightened the weight of his car. He removed all the carpeting, door panels, excess baggage of any kind. That car was extremely light weight.

Mine, in contrast, had all the dealer options installed. It had a subwoofer box in the back, amps, tools, spare, and misc. shit on the floor, carpet, tools, suitcase, spare, trunk insulation.

But the difference? How do you account for it? Why did he win? That's like a 924 Turbo beating a Boxster...it just doesn't happen.

He just tuned it properly, altered the timing a bit (they don't do this on automotive tests), got the best tires and lightest wheels he could (they don't do this on automotive tests), and had a faster car. Yet the specs were far less. Go figure eh?

Ask him. Don't take my word for it (cause you won't anyways)...just ask him.

[ This Message was edited by: Rick MacLaren on 2002-08-30 04:14 ]

81turbo · Guest

Lizard I am not against you or rick, a new member of the board asked what speed you have achived and you said 137MPH easy. Well now with dispute you say you don't know and that you don't belive those numbers, you should have said that to begin with and not represneted it as if it were fact. I am just having a hard time swallowing your claimed numbers. They just don't add up.

81turbo · Guest

Rick like most conversation son this board you have taken personal offense to some criticism. You have edited out the post where you attacked 924turbo and myself. No personal attacks have been sent your way. This is not personal. I have no beef with you as a person we just disagree about the 924's capabilities, live with it.

I never said modified cars are not faster than factory numbers I am just saying these are the only proven numbers. Everything else is hearsay or pisspoor exaggerated personal accounts. As you even said you were to scared to look at the speedometer. Again hmmmm

[ This Message was edited by: 81turbo on 2002-08-30 05:37 ]

Rick MacLaren · Guest

Yeah, when I've given reasonable doubt for the case that the "Top Speed" of any and all 924's is 204 KPH or some other such nonsense, and backed it up, made it a perfectly reasonable question, and when I see nationality become an issue with you (see previous posts) then one reasonable conclusion I can draw is that you're being unreasonable and personal.

...and the meagre normally aspirated (110 HP? 125 HP?) Scirocco beats the 146 HP 931 in a straight line because...?

Where are those spec books when you need them? Did I get the HP wrong on the Scirocco? Maybe it was 110 HP! That would explain everything!

lol

Editing is wise. That's why God gave us editors, so we can edit. And I've enjoyed hundreds (maybe thousands?) of good conversations without any problem whatsoever. And will continue to do so. So please do try focusing on THIS conversation.

Again, if anyone gets a radar gun from a club, it will be very very interesting, I believe, to have a look at how our cars deviate from stock performance figures. I think we'll find that most of the cars here widely exceed stock performance numbers. And a lot of NA's out there are much faster than the stock performance figures show. It's easy to demonstrate!

[ This Message was edited by: Rick MacLaren on 2002-08-30 06:09 ]

Lizard · Guest

hey u 2 give it up honestly i mean does it really matter

924 turbo · Guest

I need to address Rick's misunderstanding about how top speed works.

90% of what Rick mentioned as a barrier to top speed was weight. In fact, here are several examples:

Rick MacLaren · Guest

Jon that's an intelligent reply that makes sense to me. Thanks!

[ This Message was edited by: Rick MacLaren on 2002-08-30 07:13 ]

Zuffen · Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2002 7:12 am Post subject:

I'm trying to remember where I saw the comparison of what it takes for a car to reach 200mph, but at some point by aerodynamic pricinciple the car won't be able to go any faster with out rather large expenditures of additional HP. I'm thinking it was like 1O hp for each additional MPH figure and that was on a corvette with a relatively low cd.

I would love to test my car to see what the limit is.

By assuming 160HP figure (not rear wheel) and the already mentioned cd figure on a 931 (924/924S), what is the theoretical top speed?

_________________
Bob Dodd - 924turbo@cox.net
931 1982, 944 1982 euro, 924S 1988SE, 93 968 tip 06 Silver Cayenne S, 06 Black Cayenne S

I have Way too many cars, parts for the 931,944 and 951