924Board.org

[Warped]

Any of you guys, that know what you are doing, in the Pacific Northwest willing to stop on by and evaluate my 77 924???

I'm really feeling stuck here, I'm not sure what my next steps should be, and need some advice first hand to help me out.

Just to give you all an update on what I've been doing this past week, I've tried a few more feul pumps, and hand tested some of them with jumpstarting and using a voltmeter. (I even got one to turn on, but it still did not start the car)
I'm guessing but could this mean that I need a seperate switch to turn on my fuel pump, or is my overall ignition bad? I just don't know. Everything seems to want to work, but I can't get it to fire.

However even with this, if anyone is interested on stopping on by, email me, and let me know? I know that several of you live around here, and I could really use some first hand advice if you are interested.

Perhaps this is something that our Northwest 924 club (Front Runners), that we are trying to organize could work out?

Thanks,
Warped



[ This Message was edited by: Warped on 2002-05-07 12:52 ]

[Joes924]

Theres guys closer than me.

[eturbo924]

Warped
What is the car doing again? What work had you done prior to this issue? Taking a blind shot here. Check all the wires and connections at the distributor and the coil. Make sure they are all tight and properly secured. Also make sure the distributor rotor is tight.

I had two issues that confounded me after a head rebuild. One was that the connector at the distributor was not properly seated. The distributor sends the signal to the coil and fuel pump relay. Anyway took about a month to find that.

Then the pin that holds the shunt for the hall effect system fell out. Again no signal to the coil and fuel pump relay.

Anyway with out any other information I suggest you check those.

Eric
Eric.Lynch@itt.co

[924RACR]

While I can't stop by, I can continue to try to help over the net. Sounds like you have one that does work, but are you getting 12V back at the rear of the car where it's supposed to plug in? If you are, per the instructions in Haynes about how to test it, you should be developing pressure in the fuel lines up at the engine.

With it plugged in, and a line removed from the fuel filter, if you crank the engine you should get fuel spraying out - but be careful, it comes out at high pressure, so make sure it's pointed into a jar or such.

Nothing else matters until you're getting fuel up front. If you're not getting power back at the pump, then you need to deal with that electrical problem first. You can't expect the engine to run without fuel now, can you?

If you are getting fuel up front, then you have to check the injectors, and their spray pattern (good examples in Haynes). If that's all set, then worry about the ignition.

There is no magic bullet to getting the car running; you need to have a persistent, methodical approach. Anything else will only succeed in frustrating you and wasting your money.

Let us know the results of the above.

_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister

RTFAQ!

[ This Message was edited by: 924RACR on 2002-05-07 22:06 ]

[Joes924]

Hes right. dont give up though..You should be able to get help from some guys here.. or in washington i mean..Joe a colorado native.

[Warped]

Hi guys,

Yes, I agree getting fuel up front is the first priority. I just can't seem to get the fuel flowing like you said, or as talked about per the Haynes Manuel.

So far, I'm not even getting fuel up to the fuel filter, to even test out the hose of the filter into something like a jar

My problem as far as I can tell, is getting it through the fuel pump? I've changed the fuse and relay (Even tried to jump start it by putting a wire in the femal section of the "T" within the relay box.)
So, if my problem is electrical, how, where do I start to fix this? Is this part of the wire harness? If so what kind of hints or suggestions do you suggest I tackle?
I do know that I'm getting power back to the pump, only because I can hook a voltmeter to the "+" and "-" of the fuel pump and get a reading of 12V. So if I'm getting this reading, is it really electrical problems?

Heeellllpppp!!!

[Alex Roy]

If you are getting 12v at the external pump and the pump isn't pumping, then your external pump is dead. If the external one is pumping, but fuel isn't coming out, then your in-tank filter is clogged or the in-tank pump is dead or not getting power (if you have an in-tank pump on your car).

[Warped]

I'll check the wires and connectors at the distributor and coil (Where exactly is the coil?) tonight as well. I did find one thing that may or may not be an issue?

Off to the side of the distributor, is another round item kind of at a 30 degree angle, pointing to the passenger side. (What is this called?) It also has a spoke for what looks like a small skinny hose, or tube? This is currently missing? What is this tube called? and where does its other end connect to? Could this be some sort of factor to not having the distributor sending signals to the fuel pump realy? Could this round item of to the side of the distributor also be the coil?

Your post Eturbo924, got me thinking just now...I'll spend some time tonight with the haynes manuel looking for a diagram of this area to see if I can tell what is what, and checking all my connections.

Thanks

[Warped]

Does anybody know if the 77 924 Martini has a in-tank pump? (everywhere I read it doesn't really say, it just says (If you have one))?

I am getting gas from the tank to the external fuel pump...at least, it flows out of the hose, connected to the gas tank.

[Smoothie]

The coil is shaped roughly like and a little smaller than a soda can. It should be top and center of the firewall inside the engine compartment pretty close to the distributor, but to the right of it when looking from the front of the car. It will have electical terminals on either side and a large center post with an ignition wire from it to the center of the distributor (if it's there and if the wires are there).

[asalmona]

you do not have an in tank fuel pump... i think those came in 78 or even 79... i also have a 77 (actually built in late 76 according to the sticker)... have you check up at the air/fuel mixture control unit... its on the top of the air filter housing, next to the fuel distributor... there is an electrical connection there.. this connector is hooked up to the switch which will shut off the fuel pump when the air/fuel mixture plate is the the bottom... this switch is there in case the car flips over this way fuel wont continue to spill out and couse a fire... anyway if this switch is shorted it will keep the fuel pump off... if it is broken or disconnected it will allow the fuel pump to run all the time when the key is in the on position even if the car is not running... try disconnecting it and see if you get fuel to come up to the front of the car. if so then you switch is bad or the connector or the wires are bad and they are shorting, telling the fuel pump to shut off.

Alex

[Geddy T]

Where do you live?

[Warped]

Really???

Is this connector the silver flat card shaped box by the air filter?

Also I know what you mean by coil now, (And it has all of its wires..as far as I can tell...it is one of the items the haynes manuel talks about testing for a 12V, by touching the screws holding the wires on either side..right?) but I think I'm still not sure about the other item off to the other side of the distributor? Any suggestions on what this is, and what hose is missing?

Thanks again guys...you'll make a mechanic out of me yet :smile:

[ This Message was edited by: Warped on 2002-05-08 10:44 ]

[Smoothie]

Attached directly to the distributor will be the vacuum advance. That should be what you were describing that was on an angle and has a place to attach a small diameter hose. You'll have to get a vacuum hose routing diagram for your car and check that you have vacuum lines going to wherever they're needed. My Haynes book has EGR diagrams on pgs. 106-107 that show the vacuum lines. It looks like you should actually have 2 lines to the vacuum device on the distributor, so it's probably actually a vacuum advance/retard.

[Warped]

Thanks Smoothie!

So could this be a factor in why the car isn't starting as well as everything else we have been discussing?