924Board.org

chrisjames654 · Joined: 25 Apr 2008 Posts: 35 Location: Pensacola, Fl

I have been looking for an ECU to run on my car. At first I was debating between using megasquirt or SDS, but then yesterday someone offered me a TECIII system. I would like to use one that a lot of people here use in case I run into any issues. So can you tell me your experience on:

Megasquirt
Simple Design Systems
TEC III

Rich H · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject:

I have a MS running my '24 N/A.
Done totally on my own (With the odd shove in the right direction from guys on here!) no significan problems at all.

The system is relatively cheap and easy to set up and there is plenty of support available on the MSEFI.com boards.

Rich
_________________
1994 Lotus Esprit S4 - Work in progress...
1980 Porsche 924 S2 DITC Turbo - Original spec
1978 Homo-Sapiens - Tired spec
1953 Landrover S1 - Pensioner Spec

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15550 Location: Spring Lake MI

You'll find a lot of support here for Megasquirt, but there are also other commercial options you should consider in addition to the ones you've listed. Take a look at MoTeC and Pectel. Also, 034 Motorsports also make their own engine management system. Also, while not as sophisticated, there is a certain quaint, period-correct appeal to the digital WUR stuff from Unwired Technologies.
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

chrisjames654 · Joined: 25 Apr 2008 Posts: 35 Location: Pensacola, Fl

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15550 Location: Spring Lake MI

Chris, I understand totally the concern regarding other people. Note that several of the UK 924 guys are using MOTEC or Pectel. As for 034 Motorsports' stuff, I'm not aware of anyone here running it. However, the other consideration is that a commercial product will theoretically be supported by it's manufacturer (tech support...although obviously mileage may vary by vendor), whereas with MS, you are totally reliant on community-based support.

I think part of the decision depends on your intended use for the car...if it's a street application, when I convert to EFI, I personally would not hesitate to go the MS route, although I would order the pre-assembled stuff from one of the usual suspects/online sources. On a maximum effort engine (read: dedicated race application), the margin for error is much smaller. I have heard and read stories of MS failing on weekend warrior race cars. Also, the fact that you hear very little about dedicated competition race cars running MS is (IMO) somewhat telling. Again, I've read reports and had conversations with speed shops indicating that MS is not the most reliable in a race application, resulting in some cases in extensive damage to the engine.

All part of making an informed decision!
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

Rich H · Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:01 am Post subject:

Do not let the assembly of a MS put you off. The instructions with the complete official kits are amazingly straight forward and include stage checks to ensure things work before you get too lost! There are also services for fixing MS boards that people have cocked up too.

The build was straight forward and with a small soldering iron and a few other bits and pieces it was a pleasure to put together.
_________________
1994 Lotus Esprit S4 - Work in progress...
1980 Porsche 924 S2 DITC Turbo - Original spec
1978 Homo-Sapiens - Tired spec
1953 Landrover S1 - Pensioner Spec

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15550 Location: Spring Lake MI

Actually, it is precisely the soldering that makes me nervous about building my own MS board. I'm not meaning to be argumentative at all...this is just my own perspective. Let me explain.

I like to think of myself as a fairly mechanically-inclined individual. I'm certainly no expert at soldering, but I've done my fair share. In particular, having been involved with bands, live sound reinforcement, studio recording, and fixed installations for over 20 years, I've built many a cable in my day. Maybe I have a crappy soldering iron, maybe I used bad solder, maybe I had bad cable, bad ends, whatever. But I can tell you my experience indicates that hand-made / hand-soldered components (whether made by me or others) are nowhere near as durable or reliable as units produced from a factory. My experience also tells me that the pros, the guys that are touring, don't bother making hand-made cables. They all know how to solder so they can fix things in a pinch while they're on the road, but they buy high quality factory produced components.

IMO, they same analogy applies here. If you're just looking for the lowest cost, quickest, dirtiest means of getting to EFI and an engine management system, yes, a hand-built MS setup will be the cheapest fastest route. But in a harsh environment like an automobile, especially one destined for track time, I just don't trust my own skills to feel comfortable with the longevity and durability of a hand-built MS board.

As I said, it really depends on your intended application. I would put MS in a street car, but I don't trust my own soldering skills even enough for that, so I'd buy one of the pre-made kits. For my track car, I'll be going with a (to be determined) factory engine management system. Just my own personal preference...someone who is more proficient at soldering or does it for a living would probably not have the same concerns.
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

Raceboy · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2327 Location: Estonia, Europe

I recommend you consider VEMS v3.3 amongst others.

Reasons? For it's price/feature ratio, NOTHING can beat it. You buy it fully assembled and just install it, support is so much better than in the early days.
It has all the features you'll ever need in 924.

I've installed VEMS on many engines and those include Jaguar V12, supercharged AMG twin-plug V-8, supercharged 911 twin-pug B-6 (11:1 CR!), Ferrari 348 V8, many NA and turbo BMW I-6's, Porsche 928 and four 924's. Never had a problem with the ECU.
_________________
'83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S, sold
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold

'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche

Min · Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:25 am Post subject:

For those of you afraid of solder, you'll be looking to purchase the 3.57 board

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirti-system-pcb357-assembled-unit-p-164.html

90 percent surface mount, etc.

The megasquirt community provides very nice support. I've been running my megasquirt for a few years now I guess. No issues with the megasquirt itself. Only problems with my starter, or fuel pressure regulator, or other things. Megasquirt itself has been rock solid. Last time i took it out and looked at it, it looked the same as it did when I installed it.

Min
_________________
Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.

Min · Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:35 am Post subject:

http://www.diyautotune.com/cars/customer/gary_hart_studebaker.htm
http://www.diyautotune.com/cars/customer/parish_fairmont.htm
http://www.diyautotune.com/cars/customer/parish_turbo_truck.htm
and lets not forget about spectre that licensed megasquirt for their own 'EMS' the spectre EMS-pro
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/spectre-emspro-engine-management-system-p-157.html
http://www.spectreperformance.com/
check out under 'cars' they have a few landspeed cars listed there, the ferrari f40 for example.
megasquirted cars have also appeared on pinks quite a number of times last I checked.

Personally I think reliability concerns are a non issue.

Min
_________________
Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15550 Location: Spring Lake MI

And to be fair, there are stories of commercially available engine management systems failing as well...
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

Raceboy · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2327 Location: Estonia, Europe

Yes, I have 1st hand experience with AEM freezing in the most inconvenient moment and Apexi Power FC having terrible timing drift. Tech support couldn't help also.
_________________
'83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S, sold
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold

'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche

bass gt · Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:51 am Post subject:

I have been using a DTA S60, which i must say is very good. Does everything you could possibly want. However, it is not comparable to the likes of Motec or Pectel, if a true high end race ECU is required. I have aquired a Pectel SQ6, which is the absolute dog's danglies, but at a list price of $4000 it bloody well should be

.

Steve
_________________
Front Wheel Drive is the Devil's work.

chrisjames654 · Joined: 25 Apr 2008 Posts: 35 Location: Pensacola, Fl

Ideola, I REALLY appreciate your responds. This whole thread is what I was looking for. I am building a car for the track and autoX but it will also be capable of driving there. I doubt I will be going all out. I am "only" looking for 300 whp max with some weight reduction and boost. With some of the answers here I am still leaning towards megasquirt. though I am going to check out VEMS as well.

again, thank you so much guys for your input. and thank you Min for those links.

Raceboy · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2327 Location: Estonia, Europe

Pectel SQ6 is used by MANY professional motorsport teams and is truly hi-end ECU.
_________________
'83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S, sold
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold

'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche