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Sterling Doc
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 34
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 Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:00 pm Post subject: Cheap and Equal racing of 924's, 924S's, 944's! |
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NASA's 944 Challenge is growing, and as the volunteer 944 Challenge Director, I'm looking for racers, and track-day nuts to come and join us at the Midwest's premier racetracks: Road America, Autobahn, Putnam Park, and Mid-Ohio, to name a few.
The 944 Challenge Series has 3 classes SPEC, CUP, and SUPERCUP, providing a place for nearly every year and level of preparation of 924's & 944's. In it's 1st year in the Midwest, we already have cars in all 3 classes, so you'll have someone to race against. Contingency monies are available - in our sister Rocky Mountain Region - one year ahead of us, some classes have *average* contingency payouts greater than the entry fee!
NASA can take you from your stock street car on your 1st track day, and instruct you all the way through competition school. I did my competition school this spring for $300, and have 3 races in this year already - can't beat that!
We're also looking for "donor" 944's to make into race cars, especially '88 NA's. The ideal donor has a straight tub, a strong drive-train, and is cheap. Interior and cosmetics less important.
Links Below:
944 Challenge forums
944 Cup Website
944 SPEC Website
Build your 944 here
NASA (national site)
NASA Midwest
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944 SPEC racer
NASA Midwest 944 Challenge Director |
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924RACR
Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 9071
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Really, now... posting on a 924 website, and putting in a pic without even one 924S?? Hardly even trying... 
Just kidding! Welcome...
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype |
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Kaos
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 76
Location: Detroit
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Just a question - if the racing is equal, why are you especially looking for '88 N/A's? Just curious why one equal car would be more desireable than another. |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| Kaos wrote: | | Just a question - if the racing is equal, why are you especially looking for '88 N/A's? Just curious why one equal car would be more desireable than another. |
13 HP (150 vs 163).
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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Kaos
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 76
Location: Detroit
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:38 am Post subject: |
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I realize that the engines are different in HP. However, I would think that the rules would account for the differences. Sounds to me that they don't.
It doesn't matter to me, I just think that "racing is equal, except car X is better than car Y" doesn't really jive.
Oh well. |
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Sterling Doc
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| 924RACR wrote: | Really, now... posting on a 924 website, and putting in a pic without even one 924S?? Hardly even trying...
Just kidding! Welcome... |
Touche.. Here's one with a 924S in the lead. 
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944 SPEC racer
NASA Midwest 944 Challenge Director |
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Sterling Doc
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Kaos wrote: | I realize that the engines are different in HP. However, I would think that the rules would account for the differences. Sounds to me that they don't.
It doesn't matter to me, I just think that "racing is equal, except car X is better than car Y" doesn't really jive.
Oh well. |
The '83 to '88 cars differ only slightly in RWHP (about 5HP) despite the claimed #'s at the crank. There are some slight advantages to early and late cars. The early chassis are lighter, and easier to get down to min. weight. They can also be found without sunroofs, which saves a bit of weight in a good spot. The later cars nominally make a bit more HP, and have slightly better suspension geometry.
People have won in early cars and late cars, and 924S's. The differences are so small that they have not made a significant difference in years of racing. It comes down to personal preference, and some individual issues. If your over 200lbs, you might want an early chassis car so you can get it down to the min weight of 2,600 lbs with driver. You can swap in a late motor or pistons if your so inclined (parts swapping between years is allowed).
For me, I have an '88, and for reasons of parts consistancy, would like to get my teammate a similar one. Makes it easier to share spares.
I had an '87 924S sold it b/c the overbored mtor was illegal, and bought a built racecar. I've been have tons of fun in that.
You guys might find it intersting that the '88 LeMans edition 924S is considered by many to be the ultimate "SPEC 944" Light early style chassis, late motor, no sunroof. The black 924S in the picture is one of those cars. While I have the car gutted down to the last bolt and have tossed most of the dash to get to weight - he's got a full dash, full size battery, etc. Still, I did get my car to min. weight, and the fastest lap times were less than 2/100's of a second apart. Now THAT's close racing
924 Racer - that could be a CUP legal car - want to try your car in NASA?
Video here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2010569291556802207&hl=en
Cheers!
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944 SPEC racer
NASA Midwest 944 Challenge Director |
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Sterling Doc
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: |
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Forgot to mention that ANY street legal, safe car can get on the track for HPDE's, and then work your way up to racing if you want...
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944 SPEC racer
NASA Midwest 944 Challenge Director |
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fiat22turbo
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Too bad 924's aren't allowed. They would be a much cheaper alternative IMHO, instead we are of course still the red-headed step child. |
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PORSCHEV
Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 1901
Location: Cedar Lake Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Very good video and well done... I like the captions during the race. Keep up the good work. Hopefully I'll have some footage to share this weekend if the rain can stay away 
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1976 924
5 lug conversion, 17'C2 wheels,custom body work,327 vette engine.
1978-#53 "D" track racer. |
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Kaos
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 76
Location: Detroit
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Sterling Doc wrote: |
People have won in early cars and late cars, and 924S's. The differences are so small that they have not made a significant difference in years of racing. It comes down to personal preference, and some individual issues. If your over 200lbs, you might want an early chassis car so you can get it down to the min weight of 2,600 lbs with driver. You can swap in a late motor or pistons if your so inclined (parts swapping between years is allowed).
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Alright, an excellent explanation. The first post just didn't sound right to me. Thanks for the clarification. |
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924RACR
Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 9071
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed, at this level of racing, the driver's capability (both to drive and to set up the car optimally) is a far greater factor than 5hp at the crank...
Yes, I know the car could run in NASA; FWIW, I was one of the founders of GTS Challenge. But in its current state, it lacks the pace to run at the front of 944Cup or likely even Spec. Why do I need to run at the front, when I can come and play, and add another venue to my track options? Because when I run with SCCA, this is the result:
Guys, if you want to race a 2.0L NA car, sorry, but there's no better place to run than SCCA ITB right now. Sure, I could make my car run at the front of 944Cup, but I'd need to invest a substantial amount more money - and I'm already at the front, not even just on the podium.
If you want to run a 2.5L car, you're better off in NASA, with what, 3-4 different classes to run in just for the 2.5L cars - then it's just a matter of how much you want to spend. I just helped another local guy upgrade from a Geo ITB car to an ITS 924S, finishing off a still-born build. While he does run it mostly in ITS, due to local track time availability - he's competitive in NASA (GTS1 or 944Cup) in a way he'll likely not be in ITS anytime soon.
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype |
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Sterling Doc
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| fiat22turbo wrote: | | Too bad 924's aren't allowed. They would be a much cheaper alternative IMHO, instead we are of course still the red-headed step child. |
You can run a 924 in the 944CUP, but as 924 Racer suggested, it's takes a lot of work (cams, lexan, fiberglass body) to get it enough HP & light enough to be competitive. A 924S in the SPEC class would be cheaper & more simple - though a radical 924 would be cool!.
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944 SPEC racer
NASA Midwest 944 Challenge Director |
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fiat22turbo
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:07 am Post subject: |
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Hmm, interesting. The rules don't say anything about that, I find that concerning. Hmm, my 924 is already mostly fiberglass (944 rear fenders, 924 Carrera GT front end, stripped interior, etc) Just need to replace the windows.
Too bad NASA isn't here in the Pacific NW. |
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924RACR
Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 9071
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:54 am Post subject: |
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SCCA is, and you've got a home track:
http://www.oregonscca.com/
But before you get too wound up about building a 924 racecar - you should review some of the "How to get started" stuff... and we shouldn't pirate this thread. If you would like to pursue it, start another thread, we'll give all the direction we can...
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype |
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