924Board.org

[morghen]

Hey guys...i own a 1983 924 NA 125 hp mechanical injection

I want it faster...i love the feeling of the car i love the car but i want it faster...i can stay in the back of 160-200 hp cars on 400 m but i want to beat them.
So i figured i should first lighten up my car.....what i am asking is:

1. can i completly replace the front and rear panels with some glass fiber ones? i would replace the door panels too but its too dangerous....so...can the rear panels be unmounted and mounted some lightweight panels instead?

2. i have a 12V turbine that was used for ventilation...but it puts up some pressure....i was thinking of mounting it on the air input and control it with a CPU so that at lower RPM it would go slower and as i push the pedal it would get more air into the air system.

[ESC944]

Yes you can replace almost all of the rear and front with fiberglass or Carbon fiber.

As for the 12V turbine... well in order for it to give you an noticable gains... it one has to flow enough CFM, and two, would have to generate enough pressur in the manifold to generate any kind of significant gain.

Must 12v turbines are not up to this task and those that are, consume a lot of juice to even balance the natural vacum of an intake and with our cars measured from the stock air box you are talking almost 1 negative psi... anything that could consistently supply enough "additional" air that it would equalize or improve the state of affairs common to your stock setup would generate a small gain. Anything greater than positive 1 psi, would begine the climb to more and more power.

Also with more air comes a need for more fuel... if you are talking any kind of positive increase in pressure.

It isnt just about air flow... or thrust... its about pressure

Heck a Trolling motor for boats is 12v and has a fan... it can generate 50 lbs of thrust in water which is a lot denser than air.. but it doesnt flow much of anything when you start talking CFM ... plus it isnt exactly small.

Not to discurage you but if you are thinking something along those bilge pumps and air movers they sell on ebay as electric superchargers and the like... you would be better off taking a leave blower and hooking it up... their just isnt enough cfm and pressure generated by those, it can be done and it has been done, but you are talking some units that consume some serious power. AS in MAJOR watts.

Now if your 12v turbine is something else, by all means, please post more details.

[Helstrm]

http://www.gt-racing.com

You can get every body part you want. But as far as the electric blowers.. Good Luck... I already have the body kit. Now I am deciding which engine to use. So far I may try to find a 968 Motor. The have more HP than the stock Turbo... But who knows....

[morghen]

umm the body parts there are extremly expensive...i can get you guys the same things or even better looking ones far cheaper !
I am only talnking abt glass fiber...i cant get carbon fiber....but i am most shure that i can get a whole bodykit for about 1500$

this kit will include: front bumper, front panels, hood, rear panels, rear bumper. All glass fiber made.

If anyone is interested drop me an email morghen@gmail.com


968 engine + 924 body == rocket !!! if the 3000 engine the car would do 0-100 km/h around 4 secs

now...about the turbine...i've tested it...i dont know what pressure it is capable of pumping....but if i leave it on the table and give it 12V it moves itself and if i put it to blow into my face it feels like i'm doing abt 80-90 KM/h and my head is out on the window the wind it produces is realy strong....so i figured it must at least give me +5HP

[simsport]

I seem to remember.....'Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another'.....

An elec blower could deliver perhaps 1-1.5 psi of boost and this will give some small power gain, if as ESC944 says you add relevant fuel etc to use that extra air.

Trouble is to get that kind of push requires a big and powerful motor. I suspect that the gains you might make will be all but taken back via the draw on the alternator.

Put it another way....running with a switch which drops the alternator out for racing gives a few HP.

I may be wrong, there may one or two of these elc blowers which work now...just doubt it though.

Cheers
Simon
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Blown is always best!

[morghen]

i'll do my best to make the blower work...i'll do some tests and if i come up with any gains i'll post some pics and a video. The blower puts up some power....this is the blower...

[wuilman]

c'mon man an electric fan in your intake isnt gonna do all that much! for the time and effort your gonna put into that your better off spending some money on a real upgrade. and as for the rear panels (quarter panels to all the body shop folks) you cant mount or unmount them its a unibody car theyre welded on, its a structural part of the car youd have to replace them with your composite panel and epoxy them on like a corvette is held together. or simply rivet and mold some flares to the outside.
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wonder what this button does.......oh!

[ESC944]

ok thats a squirel cage blower... not much as turbines go. It comes down to CFM and pressure, now I could be wrong... but I am skeptical of those air pumps... it looks like someone pulled it from a Heater core or something.

It might provide low boost at low rpm, but as soon as the RPMs are high engouh and it doesnt supply enough air, you will have a restriction.

Just check the CFM rating of your fan and compare that to the needs of the engine, now once you have that... assuming it could some how keep up with the engine. You would need to generate a lot pressure to any measurable boost.

You should do a search for supercharger and for turbos, lot of posts about it including the raw data for.

[Paul]

You're joking us right? That blower is worse than bad, it will actually decrease your performance.

You have more air coming out of the exhaust pipe, why not run that into the intake?

[tj924]

[Archie9xx]

Getting an electric fan to produce (or even additional) more power than it consumes, is worth of Nobel prize. It is perpetual motion engine.

I wonder why you guys are still hanging on internet's discussion forums while you could be out there making millions of dollars or euros...
_________________
931 '79
ex-list:
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924 '84

[ESC944]

HAHAHAHAHA ROFLMAO

oh I know, you could starch your shorts, remove your belly button lint, and ... a lot of other useless things, that would improve performance just as much as that blower.

Like I said... its a fan and air mover, like what you see in window AC units or some such, it migh do a good job of moving enough air to keep you cool.... hey theirs and idea... build a box and mount it like the old VW window units, so that it blows air into the cabin to cool you down... yea thats it get two... one for the engine and the other for you, cause when you your car stalls or drags trying to breath throw that thing you are going to get hot. Mad even.

Ok enough poking fun, even if that unit ran off 36 volts and consomed gobs of amps... its just isnt going to move enough air under pressure.

OH I know, you could remove the motor and allow it to free wheel, install that in your intake track some how... so that it spins the air as it gets suck in, yea that should work(NOT)... but if you are a dreamer and a beliver then maybe, with a little magic it might work just like these do:

http://www.tornadofuelsaver.com/info

combination vortex generator, velocity stack, and venturi:
http://www.spiralmax.com/

oh yea... and add one to the exhaust... should fit in one of those larger ricer coffee can exhaust units...

If you could get it to generates a spiral exhaust flow, which creates a vacuum that expels the hot exhaust air out faster, thus lowering the back pressure and allowing the engine to breath better. The design is such that the unit is continuously tuned to your engine's RPM, and is self-tuning for various driving conditions. For the insert type you may install one or more units.

Yea and I might get gerbals to spin that thing and make a bigger impact.

Ok so I poked fun at it, not you.... dont take it that way.

Their are real electric superchargers, but they take a lot of power to drive their respective rotors or compressors.

Go look at any Supercharger, now suppose you could adapt electric motors and drive the thing, or look at a turbo and imagine a motor instead of the exhaust side... now assuming that you could spin it enough to make boost, it still takes power a lot of power... you can increase voltage and their by drop power consumption... but it still takes power.

Here is what I would call an intake air optimizer: the Eram
http://www.electricsupercharger.com/

Now its owned and invented by two brothers, one of them capaigns a 928 and runs two of those one on each side, it works... but the construction, could be better, its been dynoed by the rennlist guys, tested over on pelican as well.

And the number work... check the site for more details... plus it might help you understand why yours will not work.

Now if you are looking for other ideas:
http://www.halfbakery.com/category/Car_3a_20Engine_3a_20Supercharger

Real electric superchargers, do exist, they are based off converted turbos or superchargers, they take some serious power to make power.

So skip the heater blower/fan and look for something else, if you want a cheap increase, try the Eram, if you are serious about supercharging, then look at some tuner magazines or the net and read about your options.

I recommend Turbo and High performance magazine or HCI. They are mostly import based, but they do feature a lot of good information about performance mods, a lot of the other magazines are just about showing off the cars. Those two I mention do a lot of in depth articles. I like HCI the best.

Turbo online:
http://www.turbomagazine.com/

Not sure about HCI.

[Helstrm]

lol The Spiralmax claims

"Typical range of improvement over baseline is:
0 to 35 increase in horsepower,

0 to 31% increase in fuel economy."

Notice 0 to 35% So you can expect at least a 0% increase in HP

[ESC944]

YEP YEP... 35% increase... yea on what.... a virtual engine? Did you see their ideas about improving exit velocity on exhaust... yea oh yea that will work... not.

I can see a spacer and something that increases port velocity, or in some way works towards better fuel and air mixing, working for very small improvements. Heard a lot of people claim some improvements, etc...but I just dont see it.

I would think the equivelant of velocity stacks and honed intake would be far better for air flow, although a point can be made for helping the air and fuel to mix.

Now if you had decided to use a Leaf blower, yea thats it.. big electric leaf blower, oh yea and a high output alternator and a converter so you get your 110 volts... Oh I know... get a Vacuum fan... yea thats it... bahahahahahahahahahaha

[tj924]