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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 200
Location: California
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 Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Juho wrote: | Ive been naive to think that the 48mm cbr itbs would be the correct size for the 924. but ive finally come to senses after reading some stuff and switched to the other itbs i had. 38mm gsxr itbs. Nice thing with these is you can separate them resulting in straight runners, meaning less losses on intake adapter.
going to do minor changes on flange and fillets but its pretty much finished
i started on working on plenum. this is not finished it all, havent done any cfds or anything just made a model i can start playing with. Problem is atm there is so many variables that i can change so i need to narrow them down before starting cfd work. Currently reading on stuff to make better plenum...
im probaly gonna soon take the extra step of scanning engine bay to make sure everything fit and make a dummy model of the itbs itself. |
Very cool stuff here Juho, I really like the intake manifold design idea and the gauge cluster one is also nice. Recently have started reverse engineering the intake manifold myself and found a similar design to be what I'm after as well. How are you having these flanges made? Laser/water cut or machined? If interested I could probably write some tool code and have that part all cammed out for a cnc mill, for free of course  . Glad to see more people designing aftermarket mods for these cars. Here are some of my most recent exhaust flanges I've made out of 304 SS for turbo based heads. Exactly as Mike said about revisions lol, This part has something like 87 revisions and it started life from another CAD drawing that lildude4life gave me to use so it was easier than usual. Still took about 100 hours over 2 /3 weeks to get right on the money, and it's just the flange lmfao. Keep up the awesome work mate
https://i.imgur.com/88ttpFi.jpg
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1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (not started)
1979 924 "Pepper" Restoration (almost done)
1980 924 "Donnie" (Parts car)-DEAD
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie" Bucket turned Silver Spoon |
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Juho
Joined: 03 Oct 2018
Posts: 391
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| thank you, flanges i think im going to by hand, i got access to cnc milling machione and manual milling machine but i dont have experience with cam and with manual machine ive only done plastics. I need to make intake flanges out of stainless because i can weld that, suboptimal material but it is what it is. Wanted to 3dprint the manifold before but how the holes are arranged on the flanges they would cause a weakpoint. |
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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 200
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Juho wrote: | | thank you, flanges i think im going to by hand, i got access to cnc milling machione and manual milling machine but i dont have experience with cam and with manual machine ive only done plastics. I need to make intake flanges out of stainless because i can weld that, suboptimal material but it is what it is. Wanted to 3dprint the manifold before but how the holes are arranged on the flanges they would cause a weakpoint. |
If you can weld stainless you have the skills to weld aluminum. I would advise against a SS intake as weight will be way heavier than aluminum. Also im sure you know, SS is a bitch to cut and work with and aluminum is like butter comparatively. Taking a look at your designs now and should have the CAM done in a few days. I'll do it in aluminum first and then I'll do one in SS. If you are comfortable doing tool offsets and offsetting your part then you should be able to run the program on a CNC pretty easily.
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1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (not started)
1979 924 "Pepper" Restoration (almost done)
1980 924 "Donnie" (Parts car)-DEAD
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie" Bucket turned Silver Spoon |
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Juho
Joined: 03 Oct 2018
Posts: 391
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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https://grabcad.com/library/porsche-924-throttle-body-flange-1
Did a quick mockup of throttle body flange. Tried to make an adapter but couldnt find yet a good throttlebody to adapt. Just did this for fun, theres f3d to modify the file if someone wantsa to use it as base |
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Beartooth
Joined: 05 Apr 2022
Posts: 260
Location: Roberts, MT
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2024 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Mclaren924 wrote: | | Juho wrote: | | thank you, flanges i think im going to by hand, i got access to cnc milling machione and manual milling machine but i dont have experience with cam and with manual machine ive only done plastics. I need to make intake flanges out of stainless because i can weld that, suboptimal material but it is what it is. Wanted to 3dprint the manifold before but how the holes are arranged on the flanges they would cause a weakpoint. |
If you can weld stainless you have the skills to weld aluminum. I would advise against a SS intake as weight will be way heavier than aluminum. Also im sure you know, SS is a bitch to cut and work with and aluminum is like butter comparatively. Taking a look at your designs now and should have the CAM done in a few days. I'll do it in aluminum first and then I'll do one in SS. If you are comfortable doing tool offsets and offsetting your part then you should be able to run the program on a CNC pretty easily. |
Hopefully not too much of a thread-jack, but I've been mulling building my own intercooler setup for a while, which would require Al. fabrication and welding. Right now I've got a Hobart 140 MIG, which supposedly can weld Al, but isn't compatible with a spool gun. It's weird because Hobart says it's capable of welding Al, but then basically recommends against it because of wire feeding issues. I also hear MIG welding Al is a challenge - TIG is preferred, but I've got no experience with that. I have successfully welded stainless, so I'm curious what process you're referring to. I'd love to buy a TIG, but don't have money to throw at it unless I luck out finding a used setup for cheap. I'd definitely like to expand into welding Al., but that's probably more of a "some day" if it's not practical with the equipment I've got right now.
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1980 931 diamond in the rough |
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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 200
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2024 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| Beartooth wrote: | | Mclaren924 wrote: | | Juho wrote: | | thank you, flanges i think im going to by hand, i got access to cnc milling machione and manual milling machine but i dont have experience with cam and with manual machine ive only done plastics. I need to make intake flanges out of stainless because i can weld that, suboptimal material but it is what it is. Wanted to 3dprint the manifold before but how the holes are arranged on the flanges they would cause a weakpoint. |
If you can weld stainless you have the skills to weld aluminum. I would advise against a SS intake as weight will be way heavier than aluminum. Also im sure you know, SS is a bitch to cut and work with and aluminum is like butter comparatively. Taking a look at your designs now and should have the CAM done in a few days. I'll do it in aluminum first and then I'll do one in SS. If you are comfortable doing tool offsets and offsetting your part then you should be able to run the program on a CNC pretty easily. |
Hopefully not too much of a thread-jack, but I've been mulling building my own intercooler setup for a while, which would require Al. fabrication and welding. Right now I've got a Hobart 140 MIG, which supposedly can weld Al, but isn't compatible with a spool gun. It's weird because Hobart says it's capable of welding Al, but then basically recommends against it because of wire feeding issues. I also hear MIG welding Al is a challenge - TIG is preferred, but I've got no experience with that. I have successfully welded stainless, so I'm curious what process you're referring to. I'd love to buy a TIG, but don't have money to throw at it unless I luck out finding a used setup for cheap. I'd definitely like to expand into welding Al., but that's probably more of a "some day" if it's not practical with the equipment I've got right now. |
I'll leave this comment as I think it pertains to Juho and your desires. Aluminum is in my opinion the worst material to work with in terms of ease of welding. It's much less forgiving than higher melting point metals such as steel or SS. IE this means easier to blow holes, dump way too much heat, and overall makes it a very finnicky material to work with. I don't like telling people things are just outright waste of time... but you would be better shitting in your hands and clapping then using the spool gun on anything thinner than .125 wall and even then I might be clapping still lol. The spool guns are for mass manufacturing of trailers and other big aluminum projects where quality and look of weld can be outright not good but it's enough to do the job. Tig welding with a high frequency start foot pedal is the way to go. Not exactly cheap but the lower side can be had for as low as 5-700$ for welder, pedal and torch/clamp. You will want a flowmeter for measuring gas accurately not a common regulator, call that 80$ at harbor freight or online. Gas bottle and gas would be 100-250$ depending on size of tank you buy and subsequently how much it took to fill. All in all it can be all had for around 8-1300 or wayyyy more depending on how crazy you want to go. This isn't cheap by any means, but a shop would charge you the same or more to do the fab work for you. With all this said, I still believe aluminum is the way to go for the manifold and almost all other accessories where applicable, much more lightweight and infinitely cheaper than SS. I've personally never mig'd SS but I believe that once you get the idea of TIG welding any material, the concepts still apply the same or similarly to other materials, some are just more finnicky. Like most anything in life, the more you do the easier it becomes to do. The faster you get behind the torch, the more practice you'll have when that intercooler project comes around.
_________________
1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (not started)
1979 924 "Pepper" Restoration (almost done)
1980 924 "Donnie" (Parts car)-DEAD
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie" Bucket turned Silver Spoon |
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Beartooth
Joined: 05 Apr 2022
Posts: 260
Location: Roberts, MT
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| Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 4:08 am Post subject: |
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Good answer, thanks! I wish MIG was more of an option, but it sounds like I'd just make a mess and maybe ruin an intercooler core in the process. What I may do when the time comes is cut and bend all the pieces and take it somewhere to have it welded up. Even if I could shell out for a decent TIG setup, what I have in mind would probably be an exercise in frustration until I gain some experience. Of course, that means I have to find a good welder who won't charge me something crazy... Anyway, sorry for detour, Juho!
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1980 931 diamond in the rough |
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Juho
Joined: 03 Oct 2018
Posts: 391
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| by all means, this makes me really thinking of getting ac/dc tig welder also, i got cheap ass tig now but its only dc. Theres decent welder for hobbyist for about 600euros and i already got argon because my cheap welder so wouldnt be that big of an investment afterall |
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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 200
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2024 3:24 am Post subject: |
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You'll think to yourself now that you don't have anything else to use it for, but once you're hooked it's hard not to keep playing with it. I find myself constantly finding new projects I could use it for that slowly sharpen my skillset. Rome wasn't built in a day and there will be a decent amount of frustration to start. Upside is aluminum is cheap as all heck and you can get lots of practice in for not much material cost. End of thread jack lol, thank you Juho. On a none thread jacking note... I have finished up all the tool pathing for your intake manifold and will try my first run on monday. First part will be a fixture plate to fixture the rest down solid. Will post the design and a little description on what's needed to achieve and then it should be repeatable by anyone even in different machines with different tooling. Worst case may have to alter feed and speed and tool types but that's something that can be done in 10 min tops. Enjoy your weekend/Friday everyone!
_________________
1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (not started)
1979 924 "Pepper" Restoration (almost done)
1980 924 "Donnie" (Parts car)-DEAD
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie" Bucket turned Silver Spoon |
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Juho
Joined: 03 Oct 2018
Posts: 391
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2024 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| I suggest you first printing a a prototype of flange i posted. I went with the fia homolagation spec intake hole since my head has been modified by previous owner. Nothing that cant be fixed with dremel but i would still test 3dprinted flange on your head |
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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 200
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2024 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Juho wrote: | | I suggest you first printing a a prototype of flange i posted. I went with the fia homolagation spec intake hole since my head has been modified by previous owner. Nothing that cant be fixed with dremel but i would still test 3dprinted flange on your head |
Already got one and she looks pretty good, I plan on doing some slight sanding and "porting to optimize intake runner anyways. Didn't quite get to it this week as I've been too damn busy. Will have the fixture plate cut out on monday and hopefully at least one aluminum piece done to test fit . Keep up the good work
_________________
1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (not started)
1979 924 "Pepper" Restoration (almost done)
1980 924 "Donnie" (Parts car)-DEAD
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie" Bucket turned Silver Spoon |
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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 200
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Got some good progress this week, fixture plate done and first test flange almost done. Will flip and do other side. Seems to be coming out pretty good. I'll send you the first 4 I make if you want them Juho, just send me a shipping label
[img]https://i.imgur.com/MjwaLSj.mp4[/img]
_________________
1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (not started)
1979 924 "Pepper" Restoration (almost done)
1980 924 "Donnie" (Parts car)-DEAD
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie" Bucket turned Silver Spoon |
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Juho
Joined: 03 Oct 2018
Posts: 391
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| That's awesome! The progress looks great. I'd be happy to take the first 4 flanges. I'll send you a pm |
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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 200
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2024 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| Juho wrote: | | That's awesome! The progress looks great. I'd be happy to take the first 4 flanges. I'll send you a pm |
Welp I ran out of time last night so I will have to wait until Monday to get the last one finished but I've got 4 done so far. The first one had a little to much chamfer for the last tool path so I'm redoing that one. The overall profile of the intake hole is almost perfect, it will probably need a little massaging with a die grinder to be perfect, I'm sure you were planning on smoothing the radius edges anyways. I will attempt to edit the drawing for the next set I make but truth be told it's already pretty damn good.
The super chamfer on the first one lol
Fitment
_________________
1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (not started)
1979 924 "Pepper" Restoration (almost done)
1980 924 "Donnie" (Parts car)-DEAD
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie" Bucket turned Silver Spoon |
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