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Maleraj
Joined: 20 Feb 2024
Posts: 4
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 4:41 am Post subject: Five-speed conversion |
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Hi everyone!
Been lurking around this forum for a couple of years now, it's a real gold mine of information, and want to start of by thanking everyone for sharing their knowledge!
With that out of the way, let's get on to business. I've got this 924 2.0NA from -78 with a bad 4-speed in it, and i've been thinking that since it has to come out anyway, it would be nice to replace it with an Audi 5-speed instead. I've been doing some reading, but just want to confirm that i've understood things correctly. So from what I can see, the swap from an Audi 4-speed to an Audi 5-speed is pretty straight forward and, as long as I get my hands on one with the 20mm input shaft, the only real difference installation wise is that the shifter rod for the 5-speed is slightly shorter than the one for the 4-speed. From the transaxle applications table this would mean that I need a trans with either of the codes VQ, MD, or 4Q, and that I also would need the shorter shifter rod.
What I would like to know i whether I'm right thus far, and also: Is there any difference inbetween the different transmission code options? And if I wouldn't be able to source the shorter shifter rod, shouldn't it be possible to just shorten the one i have right now?
Thanks! |
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Cedric
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2721
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:21 am Post subject: |
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It was a long time ago since i did it with a friend, on his car but i dont remember swapping rods. I think the shifter mechanism on the 4sp could be transferred to the new box to make it work. Anyway its probably the cheapest performance upgrade possible on these cars, have fun with the extra performance:)
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1980 924 Turbo
www.instagram.com/garagecedric/ |
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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 200
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Cedric wrote: | | It was a long time ago since i did it with a friend, on his car but i dont remember swapping rods. I think the shifter mechanism on the 4sp could be transferred to the new box to make it work. Anyway its probably the cheapest performance upgrade possible on these cars, have fun with the extra performance:) |
I think the later style 5 speeds non dog leg boxes used a different linkage style, the 81-forward cars I believe. The dogleg boxes have a different rod configuration and shifter bushing setup is different too. I would truthfully grab everything if possible or at least check PET to verify. Just swapped a standard 5 speed out of a 81 turbo car into my 77 and it changed it's life  If you get a later style 5 speed you can use the only 944 short shifter kit on it and have a very nice shifting setup. Those late 5 speeds are pretty hard to come by in the states as we only got like 2 years of them and most cars out here seem to be 77-80, some outliers here and there. A 944 5 speed might also be in order if cheaply sourced and the installation should be rather straight forward i believe.
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1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (not started)
1979 924 "Pepper" Restoration (almost done)
1980 924 "Donnie" (Parts car)-DEAD
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie" Bucket turned Silver Spoon |
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924RACR
Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8889
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 1:20 am Post subject: |
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Correct, you'd need the shifter rod with the different length than the 4-speed.
A 944 or 931 5-speed (non-dogleg, obviously) would be decidedly more work (due to the larger input shaft) than getting the right 924NA 5-speed. Either have to make up a custom coupler to connect to the smaller NA torque tube, or swap the torque tube as well and use a Ford clutch disc. Plus the gears are a bit taller, not quite as fast as the NA box.
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype |
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MikeJinCO
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 1243
Location: Maysville, Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:11 am Post subject: |
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The above is correct but you must be a little careful with this as if I recall correctly the USA gearbox sequence vs the ROW sequence might be different. In the US the final drive ratios for the NA were '77 3.60, '78 3.88 and then 4.11 for the 5 speed from 81 on. The internal gearing was the same thru out with a longer 5th gear for the 5 peed. The 944 then went back to a 3.88. The shift rod for the 5 speed is shorter because they relocated the shift rod on the transmission.
The 5 speed is quite a tight fit with the stock gas tank in place. As Maclaren said the Only944 short shift kit works miracles, but can also be quite difficult to install with the transmission in the car.
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Mike
'67 MG Midget Dp
'71 Ocelot Dsr Kawasaki 1000(under rebuild) |
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Maleraj
Joined: 20 Feb 2024
Posts: 4
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Cedric wrote: | | Anyway its probably the cheapest performance upgrade possible on these cars, have fun with the extra performance:) |
Just what I've heard, my thinking is that I'll fix it up and make it blindingly fast at the same time;)
| 924RACR wrote: | Correct, you'd need the shifter rod with the different length than the 4-speed.
A 944 or 931 5-speed (non-dogleg, obviously) would be decidedly more work (due to the larger input shaft) than getting the right 924NA 5-speed. Either have to make up a custom coupler to connect to the smaller NA torque tube, or swap the torque tube as well and use a Ford clutch disc. Plus the gears are a bit taller, not quite as fast as the NA box. |
Yeah, anything other than the 924NA box feels like way too much work right now, so thats definetly what I'm going for.
| MikeJinCO wrote: | The shift rod for the 5 speed is shorter because they relocated the shift rod on the transmission.
The 5 speed is quite a tight fit with the stock gas tank in place. As Maclaren said the Only944 short shift kit works miracles, but can also be quite difficult to install with the transmission in the car. |
I've read somewhere that it's supposed to be quite a narrow fit, but that a few bangs and a dent in the tank can make life easier if one's desperate;) Regarding the shifter, since the 4-speed is longer, has anyone tried "simply" shortening it? I'm thinking, just cut a piece out at the approriate point and weld back together? |
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Mclaren924
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 200
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| 924RACR wrote: | Correct, you'd need the shifter rod with the different length than the 4-speed.
A 944 or 931 5-speed (non-dogleg, obviously) would be decidedly more work (due to the larger input shaft) than getting the right 924NA 5-speed. Either have to make up a custom coupler to connect to the smaller NA torque tube, or swap the torque tube as well and use a Ford clutch disc. Plus the gears are a bit taller, not quite as fast as the NA box. |
I have the part number for a luk clutch that will fit a 25 mm spline to a na bellhousing, this is the exact setup I run in my 77 and its cheaper than a stock clutch lol. All you need is the original torque tube to come with the transmission and it bolts right in. There really isn't much to the swap at all. I personally think the dogleg should be avoided at all costs as The doglegs have expensive linkage bushings and cannot be modified with the short shift kit, also the the synchro's are probably dead or halfway there and new ones aren't made. IMO The later style should be acquired complete with torque tube and shifters. This will make for an easier swap, I have done just about every job imaginable on these cars and i refuse to pull the trans off the torque tube to swap it, I could only see it being done so a car can get back on the racetrack fast. would rather spend the few extra hours just pulling whole thing.
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1980 931 "Salt" Bucket wannabe racer (not started)
1979 924 "Pepper" Restoration (almost done)
1980 924 "Donnie" (Parts car)-DEAD
1977 924 Slicktop "Pennie" Bucket turned Silver Spoon |
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MikeJinCO
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 1243
Location: Maysville, Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:58 am Post subject: |
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I just checked and the early 944 and late 924 5 speed shift rods have the same PN. Clarks Garage.com is a great reference. I took my donor 5 speed out in the middle of a field so it was a bit tricky. I think the success to getting it in is to have a good angle adjustable transmission jack so that it can be held parallel and quite close to the torque tube flange. Also when you take the existing trans out, the torque tube will drop down onto the body shell cross support so it is no longer horizontal. I put transmissions in with the hangers not attached to just give me a bit more room.
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Mike
'67 MG Midget Dp
'71 Ocelot Dsr Kawasaki 1000(under rebuild) |
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Maleraj
Joined: 20 Feb 2024
Posts: 4
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks to everyone for your input and tips! Do any of you happen to know what the actual length difference between the five-speed and four-speed shifter rod is? If anyone here knows or have happen to have both laying around, some measurements would be greatly appreciated! |
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