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My 924 Turbo, engine work and new suspension
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fblade  



Joined: 06 Dec 2020
Posts: 35
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cedric wrote:

i chose to test the GAZ gold, but with an extended stroke of about 1", they dont do metric there . What they offer of the shelf is way to short, and pretty much gives you no way of chosing rideheight and still have full suspenition travel, not a good choice. Howver, modifying the dimension is included in the standard pricing, so thanks for Larkspeeed for handling my slightly complicated order, and also the quick turnaround when they sent me struts with the wrong stroke the first time

I will start with the same springs as today, 350lbs up front and 28mm bars at the rear, to test out the dampers in the same conditions. And then i also ordered some stiffer springs (425lbs i think), and some additional weak rear springs to balance things out.


Can i ask for a bit more info as to why you extended the coilovers 1"? Is it because your car is not a race only car and is a road car as well?

safe wrote:

Mittelmotors website suck so hard...

Yes Mittlemotor website does suck. I also emailed them and never got a reply, does anyone know if they speak English as was thinking about calling them but my German is not very wunderbar.

If i can get on the site i think i will order one of those sump baffles as they do look good.
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safe  



Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 495
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fblade wrote:


safe wrote:

Mittelmotors website suck so hard...

Yes Mittlemotor website does suck. I also emailed them and never got a reply, does anyone know if they speak English as was thinking about calling them but my German is not very wunderbar.

If i can get on the site i think i will order one of those sump baffles as they do look good.


They used to speak English, I called them 15-20 years ago for some reason I don't remember. I might had to wait until they found someone who could speak.
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/Magnus, Stockholm Sweden
=======================
Porsche 924 -79 NA, EFI and Turbo.
Porsche 931 -79
Porsche 911 -77, 3.2 Targa
Porsche 911 -69, 3.6, Coupe
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Cedric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2500
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fblade wrote:
Cedric wrote:

i chose to test the GAZ gold, but with an extended stroke of about 1", they dont do metric there . What they offer of the shelf is way to short, and pretty much gives you no way of chosing rideheight and still have full suspenition travel, not a good choice. Howver, modifying the dimension is included in the standard pricing, so thanks for Larkspeeed for handling my slightly complicated order, and also the quick turnaround when they sent me struts with the wrong stroke the first time

I will start with the same springs as today, 350lbs up front and 28mm bars at the rear, to test out the dampers in the same conditions. And then i also ordered some stiffer springs (425lbs i think), and some additional weak rear springs to balance things out.


Can i ask for a bit more info as to why you extended the coilovers 1"? Is it because your car is not a race only car and is a road car as well?

safe wrote:

Mittelmotors website suck so hard...

Yes Mittlemotor website does suck. I also emailed them and never got a reply, does anyone know if they speak English as was thinking about calling them but my German is not very wunderbar.

If i can get on the site i think i will order one of those sump baffles as they do look good.


The total stroke from GAZ originally is 127mm/5", which is not a lot when you remove the part of the stroke that the bump rubber takes up. I would do the same mod even for a pure race car, to be sure i can run both type of top mounts (high and low), or play around with ride height and not risk of running out of droop. Without the stroke extension theres pretty much only one ride height available where you have decent stroke in and out, 60/40mm for example.

I have all the measurements in the CAD where i did all my analyses, so if you want some numbers i have it. The best is to measure on your car first, where your actual ride height will be, and the see how it all fits up.

Regarding mittlemotor, sometimes ive actually had a mail discussion with them in english, and sometimes you dont get anything at all. Very strange customer service
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fblade  



Joined: 06 Dec 2020
Posts: 35
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cedric wrote:


I have all the measurements in the CAD where i did all my analyses, so if you want some numbers i have it. The best is to measure on your car first, where your actual ride height will be, and the see how it all fits up.

Regarding mittlemotor, sometimes ive actually had a mail discussion with them in english, and sometimes you dont get anything at all. Very strange customer service


Thanks for the offer and sharing your knowledge, yeah numbers would be great, not that i know what I'm looking at but would be good have a look and try to learn something.
When you say measure my car, do you mean the distance between the wheels an the bodywork(wings/fenders) or ground to lowest point on the car.

Have just ordered a sump baffle from them(well i hope thats what i ordered) so i'am betting on the sending of parts being better than their customer service or we will have to rename them and replace the M with SH
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Cedric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2500
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fblade wrote:
Cedric wrote:


I have all the measurements in the CAD where i did all my analyses, so if you want some numbers i have it. The best is to measure on your car first, where your actual ride height will be, and the see how it all fits up.

Regarding mittlemotor, sometimes ive actually had a mail discussion with them in english, and sometimes you dont get anything at all. Very strange customer service


Thanks for the offer and sharing your knowledge, yeah numbers would be great, not that i know what I'm looking at but would be good have a look and try to learn something.
When you say measure my car, do you mean the distance between the wheels an the bodywork(wings/fenders) or ground to lowest point on the car.

Have just ordered a sump baffle from them(well i hope thats what i ordered) so i'am betting on the sending of parts being better than their customer service or we will have to rename them and replace the M with SH


If you measure from the center of the wheel hub to the edge of the fromt wing(when it sits at desired ride height) i can quickly give you some numbers.
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fblade  



Joined: 06 Dec 2020
Posts: 35
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cedric wrote:

If you measure from the center of the wheel hub to the edge of the fromt wing(when it sits at desired ride height) i can quickly give you some numbers.


Thanks, my desired ride height would be as low as possible but not hitting the Ground around the track, at the moment i think lowest part of the car is around 80mm off the ground.

It's currently in the air at the moment as refurbing all the brakes but as soon as that's done i put it back on the ground and measure it.
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safe  



Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 495
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fblade wrote:
Cedric wrote:

If you measure from the center of the wheel hub to the edge of the fromt wing(when it sits at desired ride height) i can quickly give you some numbers.


Thanks, my desired ride height would be as low as possible but not hitting the Ground around the track, at the moment i think lowest part of the car is around 80mm off the ground.


As low as possible isn't necessarily the best ride height for track use. You got to allow the suspension to work somewhere in its designed range.
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/Magnus, Stockholm Sweden
=======================
Porsche 924 -79 NA, EFI and Turbo.
Porsche 931 -79
Porsche 911 -77, 3.2 Targa
Porsche 911 -69, 3.6, Coupe
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Cedric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2500
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people might already have seen it, anyhow theres alot of progress with getting everything together. I redo lots of small things since i want to do it better than i had before on the first version of my ic setup.

This is my new turbo inlet. I 3D scanned my old one and then designed anew version. The goal was to make more room for boost pipes, and it really worked well in that perspective. hopefully no more chafing pipes. It was a fun project aswell. The pipe is printed in prusa PCCF, annealed in an oven to handle 130 degC. metal rings in the end for better resistance to clamping force. the pipe for the BOV is also closer to the turbo inlet, to make as little disturbance as possible of the kjet plate, to avoid fire balls at throttle lift off . Still snow on the ground, and i still work a bit with the other parts of the boost piping, flushing the brown shite out of the radiatior etc(from the HG failure), and also redoing the mounts for the oil cooler, which was a bit crap before.







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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8733
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome! Cant wait to hear and see this thing running!
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jacobroufa  



Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 518
Location: Belvidere, IL

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More 3D printed boosted 924s! That's so awesome!

Cedric, two questions..

The BOV pipe -- this is the return, for a recirculating setup? Could it simply be capped if vent to atmosphere is desired? What are the pros/cons of this or is it just noise?

And then, would you be amenable to running a batch of these to sell? One of my goals this year is intercooling my 931 and I intend to do just as you and FastEddie have done, using a 951 compressor which gets rid of the internal valve and clocking it appropriately so it can route the charge tubing. This part would be perfect for my use and I would happily buy one if you offered for sale. I would wager there are other 931 owners out there who could speak similarly..
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Cedric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2500
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jacobroufa wrote:
More 3D printed boosted 924s! That's so awesome!

Cedric, two questions..

The BOV pipe -- this is the return, for a recirculating setup? Could it simply be capped if vent to atmosphere is desired? What are the pros/cons of this or is it just noise?

And then, would you be amenable to running a batch of these to sell? One of my goals this year is intercooling my 931 and I intend to do just as you and FastEddie have done, using a 951 compressor which gets rid of the internal valve and clocking it appropriately so it can route the charge tubing. This part would be perfect for my use and I would happily buy one if you offered for sale. I would wager there are other 931 owners out there who could speak similarly..


Hi,

I use the recirculation bov due to the k-jetsystem, to avoid issues with the kjet plate measuring air that doesnt goes into the engine. This is the same issue that happens on more modern maf cars aswell. However it might work well enough anyway with a bit of luck with an open BOV, im not the bov sound kind of guy so this works for me.

I could surely make more of these for anyone that want to use Regular K26 housings on a 931, i can make version with and without the BOV pipe, and also change the diameter on it a bit if desired, or it could be capped if the function should still be there. However i would prefer to test this pipe on the car first to see that its works well and sits well when the engine moves around with full boost, hopefully the car will have its first outing with this new engine in a month or so.

What you see in the picture on my car is just that, a 951S compressor housing rotated for enabling the intercooling piping.
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jacobroufa  



Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 518
Location: Belvidere, IL

PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome.

I understand about testing prior to committing to anything. I hope your test goes well! This looks like a really nice improvement to your existing intake tract.
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I love from now both you Cedric and Morghen is the absolute pushing the limits of what is possible from 3D printing in these common materials. I love this! Thank you to you both for all the work and thought that went into all of these projects. Really really super cool stuff from you both

I am back to somewhat normal now in my work life for the moment since Friday night. I took one day to rest and now I can start thinking about the 924 again!
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1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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Cedric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2500
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im not sure Im pusing any limits on this car, but i try to explore whats possible in the diy world, and hopefully inspire others to try aswell

Might have bought another race car, more on that later
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Cedric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2500
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2023 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time to wrap this up, not that many loose threads left now..

Finished the aluminium pipe which needed some welding, and i dont have a welder. But it ended up really good, now i have clearance between all pipes and the fram rail, before everything was having contact. So far really happy with the V2 of this setup. I also have a bung for boost temp measurment in the future.

Im thinking of putting a unit like this in the car in the future for simpler logging, its pretty well priced and pretty much made for old cars. Its a unit which have a lot of sensor inputs and sends them out over a OBD/Bluetooth, so they can be monitored or logged in whatever you have like Torque

https://www.stannumembedded.se/


Did a test of the fuel flow, dont ask me why it hasnt been done before. I though about doing it for over a decade. Its something i always recommend others to do, but might not have done myself

I went from (total weight of the cans after 30s)
152,153,160,162g

to (different measurment time though)
148,150,150,151

Then i got enough of the petrol fumes and thought it was good enough. Small adjusment on the FD seemed to do the trick.

Also realised it flows about 375cc/min per injector, which is actually quite alot of fuel, i dont think im maxing out the FD fuel flow in my car. An electronic wur would probably enable a bunch more hp..

The plan is to pick up a new race car tomorrow, will get tight in my small garage



Made a 931 clock from a leftover clock..

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