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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2542
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nrRYZhR2GJQ&feature=youtu.be
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8621
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good start!
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1310
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice! Glad to see you started

Would be cool to do a front mount conversion so you get a removable panel. I am only saying that because years ago I had to deal with such dents around the vents on my '80 after a limo backed into it in Chicago.
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2542
Location: MI

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First let’s just see if I can become worth a crap at any sort of bodywork..
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Beartooth  



Joined: 05 Apr 2022
Posts: 25
Location: Roberts, MT

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done some bodywork over the years; little bit of everything from rust repair, beating metal, using plastic filler, and a complete respray. Unless it's a very simple dent, the metal stuff is by far the thing I need to get better at, or find somebody who's good with it.

Actually, not unlike your car, but not quite as dramatic, the car I did the most work on ('89 Mercedes 560SEC) needs some body work again. I did a bunch of mechanical work, fixed up and upgraded the suspension, and did a custom respray. Then my brother hits a deer with it (driving it back to help me move), then an unknown entity put a big dent in quarter panel while it sat at my parents' house. I had planned on stitching in a new quarter panel, but I haven't found one anywhere closer than Denver. I would like to find a complete parts car, but again, nothing near me, and prices for SECs have skyrocketed across the board.

Besides metal work, the other area I could get better at is spraying paint and clear coat. That's not as critical though, because you can sand down orange peel and runs, and in the worst case, you can strip it and start over (although that's a lot of lost labor, and good paint aint cheap). With metal, if you screw up trying to beat it out, you'll end up with a swollen, wavy panel. I think with my SEC, I'll take it somewhere. I'd asked some fellow car nuts if they knew of any really good panel beaters, and struck out, but then another friend mentioned a body shop he's used that really knows how to work metal. So I might take it there. I wouldn't say I'm scared of working sheet metal, it's just that someone really good with it can fix some pretty nasty stuff to where you'd need little (if any) filler, where I'd be lucky to get it pounded out straight enough to avoid waves or having to use too much filler.
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2542
Location: MI

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

560?
That’s the exact same fuel distributor and metering plate that im running in my brown 931..


Keep your eye out for good used fuel distributors with metering housings from those, and all the fuel lines, injector lines, feed/return lines, and the pressure regulator that goes into the return line..

Mike 9311 needs a set of all of these lines right now I believe..

I’d buy at least one more entire setup, lines and all, if it came up for a decent deal..

But those cars are going “through the roof” in value?
How much for these parts these days then?

Strangely their are 2 different looking CIS-E fuel distributors that come from that car, the more rounder/bubbly/curvy looking one, and the one with sharper lines and also Kia’s those gussets between the injector ports..

I have the bubbly looking one, but both will work for 931s! (And 928s)


Oh yeah..
You know can hook a MegaSquirt right to your 560 fuel distributor and completely control your AFRs right?
You ever heard of dkubus? https://dkubus.com/

I’m running their (parts distributor) CIS system HARD on a 931.. And it works..
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Last edited by Fasteddie313 on Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:50 am; edited 3 times in total
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2542
Location: MI

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok yeah.. Bodywork 🥺





This is uh.. After mostly getting the dents I could out, after making the roof up and forward a touch to make the door gaps even again at the top of the A pillars, and pushed the sunroof opening back up to where I think it should be..

I wire wheeled it good good to get any flaking areas gone..
Then I took a flat hard sanding block and found all the tiny high spots I could, and knocked them down..

Then I roughed it up all real good with corse sand paper..
Then I started applying the filler..

Going not too terribly so far..
The belt sander is really coming in handy..

Bought another gallon of filler and a gallon of fiberglass resin today (don’t need that much resin but it was on sale)..
Because I have to do fiberglass on the rear bumper, side skirts, and possibly the plastic front bumper..
Oh yeah and possibly fiberglass a couple spots in the rear diffuser rubber thing, but I don’t know if the resin will like eat that rubber or who knows..
Bet I’ll find out..

This won’t be done soon…

Right now I’m mostly concerned about doing the best job I can on the roof and rear quarter, because they don’t exactly unbolt from the car..

You can’t see it well in the pics or video but I got the shape back in the metal pretty good..
I tried very hard and made myself bleed more than once..

I don’t much have the artists touch with that filler crap.. Kinda just have to put it on too thick and then sand it down to shape I guess..
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1310
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just going to offer some tips.

The best thing in that area would be to get a DA ('dual action' sander) and feather all the edges. I would go to bare metal in all these areas and see if you can work it from the other side which means the headliner has to be removed. Wire wheel will fray the old paint edges. The least amount of dents the better. Test fit everything including new glass. All those lines that will be important when finished.

Look up feather edging with a DA on Youtube. Should be massive help there if you can work your way through bad advice to good

Paint and body jobs require patience and prep, prep, prep and more prep. The amount or prep will make you sick to your stomach if you want it right. When sanding bondo, let you hand guide you by feel with your eyes closed. Once you move to primer, that should be finish sanded close and then wet sanded over and over. Each time misting with say black or another dark color. This is wet sanded and remaining dark areas are the low spots that need work. You should be doing multiple coats of primer in this way. Epoxy primer is better than lacquer based since it takes a long time for the lacquer to outgas which will then show your sanding scratches months later.

A 1967 Camaro I painted way back (if you notice everything I do or did is waayyyy back in the day, sigh). Spent a lot of time with lines and fitment. Those white stripes were masked and painted, not a wrap or any easy way out, just patience. Won first place in a show in Chicago that I didn't know the guy was going to enter. Luckily I took the time to prep. I have to upload the pic of the bottle of polish on the roof. Reflection was crazy. I'll try and help you in any way I can. DA sander is where I would start.






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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1310
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or random orbital sander that isn't pneumatic like this one on eBay. Link didn't work for me to post but you get the picture



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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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Beartooth  



Joined: 05 Apr 2022
Posts: 25
Location: Roberts, MT

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, I actually own two 560s. One coupe, one sedan (89 560SEC, and 90 560SEL). Identical mechanicals as far as I can tell. They probably switched FDs at some point in the late 80s. I'd heard of swapping whole K/KE-jet setups, and it doesn't surprise me that the 928 would use the same FD, but using a V8 setup on a four-cylinder sounds pretty wild to me. Does that involve 8 injectors too, or does each injector get two lines off the FD? One of the few drawbacks of living in MT is that there are very few of these cars around, so I'm not likely to come across much parts, and I don't have any parts cars. I'm also on Benzworld.org; might be worth getting on there and keeping an eye on the "for sale" threads. I have heard of dkubus and considered buying a setup, but it didn't seem worth the cost just to tinker. I've got an idea kicking around to mount a supercharger to the M117, but it would require ditching the KE-jet setup (the supercharger would sit over the intake where the air flow plate and FD sits) and going to EFI. What I'd really like to see, but the market may be too small, is a whole new KE-jet controller, ideally with an ignition control option. Coupled with wideband O2, KE-jet would probably be capable enough to run closed loop WOT and a lot of other cool stuff. And nothing beats it in terms of limp-home capability: when I was having issues as a result of a shorted out O2 sensor wire, I just disconnected the EHA, and it ran and even started fine (keep in mind it was summer; might have had more issues in the winter).

I bought my 560SEC, in need of some mechanical attention, for $1600 in 2009. It had just over 200k, but even so, a car in that condition would easily bring $5000 now, and good luck finding anything turn-key and in good cosmetic condition for less than $10k. On the top end, when I started tracking, $15-20k was a rare price for a car in rare condition; now the cheapest sale on Bring-a-Trailer in the last year was $13.5k, and they routinely push $50k for low-mile or tastefully upgraded and well-maintained cars. 560SELs seem to be in similar territory. I think I was lucky to get my two at a time when the market was soft. They're not cheap, and maintenance can be a challenge (there's a learning curve, and parts aren't as easy to find anymore), but if you buy the right one, you can have a car for $30k or so with the look and feel of cars in the $200k price range. Anything new(ish) and close in price will feel downright chinzy by comparison, and even mid-level luxury cars are a let-down in terms of look and feel, although not performance.

Going back to the bodywork, I totally agree with Mike about the prep work. Once you get the metal straight, most of the labor in a top-dollar paint job involves build primer and block sanding, over and over until you have a perfectly flat panel. Dark colors especially will show waves and dips and such that you'd think were long gone when you were prepping. It'd be interesting to know how much of the primer that gets sprayed on a car for a top-shelf paint job ends up as dust on the floor; I'd bet it's well over half. And then, sanding between coats is usually called for, in addition to the finish sanding and buffing on the top coat. But on the other hand, depending on the color and your expectations, you can get a pretty nice paint job without going through all that trouble. For tools, I've got several sanders, but a good dual-action orbital sander is all you really need. A straight-line sander is nice to have too. Pneumatic is nice if you've got a big compressor (which you'd also need to run a good spray gun), but otherwise, stick with electric. Then I've got a set of sanding blocks and quite an assortment of sandpaper, some bits and pieces for working body filler, buffing pads and compounds (can attach those to the sander). I don't have a comprehensive list, but it doesn't take a lot to get going, and you can figure it out pretty well as you go. It is the kind of thing where you just have to jump in and experiment. In many ways, just following the mixing and application instructions to a T is the most important part and will keep you out of trouble. You'll screw something up (like applying build primer too dry in hot temperatures - came out looking more like some finely-textured drywall finish, but didn't cause any trouble once I sanded it back down), but as long as you're following the directions and not trying to cover over mistakes, you're not likely to have it peel or crack on you down the road.
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2542
Location: MI

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 injectors.. 8-to-4

Beartooth wrote:
What I'd really like to see, but the market may be too small, is a whole new KE-jet controller, ideally with an ignition control option. Coupled with wideband O2, KE-jet would probably be capable enough to run closed loop WOT and a lot of other cool stuff. And nothing beats it in terms of limp-home capability: when I was having issues as a result of a shorted out O2 sensor wire, I just disconnected the EHA, and it ran and even started fine (keep in mind it was summer; might have had more issues in the winter).


You basically just exactly described what I’m running..

It’s MegaSquirt, you just plug the DPR into the MegaSquirt instead of EFI injectors, and still does everything else MegaSquirt does..
It will do many ignituon styles, and all the cool stuff open/closed loop, fuel CUT, antilag/launch control (ON CIS), boost control, everything..

It is amazing at AFR control.. Cruises in closed loop at perfect AFR always, starts excellent, boost AFRs are excellent, tuned up to about 25psi so far..
See my thread “Stage Next”..
It’ll slap right on a merc I’m sure..


Bodywork..
This is hard work..
Tried taking pictures but the thing is like camouflage.. You can’t really see in the pics..

It is turning out nicer than I thought…

I’m not sure what stages exactly I’m going to do this in but I’m not going for a full paint job all at once..
Bite off little pieces at a time..
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1310
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie313 wrote:

Bite off little pieces at a time..


This is truly most important.
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2542
Location: MI

PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Primer has lots of Light/dark spots.. Those aren’t dents..
Pics look like hell, like I said..






This next upside down pic with the bead along the fender line, I made like this..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pMB8FPlzRCE&feature=youtu.be

Sprayed release agent on the back of the square (metal strip thing)..
Popped right off..

Then I used a pretty wide steel drywall putty knife, and put a bend in it to match the shape of the body where it was not bent..
Then pretty much used it to shape the car between the wheel well, which wasn’t bent, and the bead I made in the video..

All of that, and the top flat under the gas cap area, turned out extremely well..

I think their is more work that could be done low like right in front of the wheel..
Their were no dents there, but it doesn’t feel straight..

















Rear quarter used to have some pretty cool gold paint at some time..

It’s not finished, but pretty darn good..
Wish I could get some pics that look accurate..
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Last edited by Fasteddie313 on Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1310
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you sand the primer now, afterward mist with a cheap paint can with an opposing color like black on light gray or the other way around.

Then block sand. This will leave behind you low spots where you can still see misted areas.

Like this...

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/667477-ready-set-go-my-1965-911-restoration-3.html






https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/667477-ready-set-go-my-1965-911-restoration-3.html
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2542
Location: MI

PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The roof so far has gotten 2 coats of heavy full grey primer, wet block sanded, more heavy fill primer on low spots and any lines that appeared, wet block sanded..

Right now it is sitting in 2 more coats of heavy fill grey primer, and 2 coats on top of that of black regular primer, and it’s going to stay like that for a minute because I’m out of primer..

Rear quarter got one/2 coats of heavy fill grey primer and sanded, then 2 coats of black primer..

And I’m out of primer..



I need to find primer that is cheaper than $13 a can!!



Roof is extremely close to being done..

Rear quarter, the worst parts are where I didn’t really do any bodywork to it, which I didn’t expect..

I guess I SHOULD work the entire panel, full and flatten everything, but where do I stop??

I mean, this car looked really nice yeah, but it was not perfect..
Everywhere I look their is a little nick here, a little simple there, a little wave here and there, many that have been there long before I messed it up..

I’d end up doing the entire car lol
(Which I’m sure you will say “yes do the entire car” lol

Not sure what level of perfection I’m going to try to achieve yet, or how far I’m going to go..

Might work on these areas a decent bit more and then spray with some matching Audi red and see how terrible it looks..

Need to find primer bonfire I do any more on those areas, because I would prefer it to look how it does in between works..

Currently working on fiberglassing the front plastic bumper where it broke, and fiberglassing the side skirts where they have problems..

Not sure what I’m going to do with the front fender yet..

Still have the back bumper to do, has one good crack in it and bent mount..

Rear diffuser thing may or may not be salvageable..
It’s made out of some sort of foam and idk if fiberglass stuff will melt it..
Many of the attachment stuff things pulled right out of it..
Maybe body filler on that instead of fiberglass?

Front nose panel is another story..
That’s one of the most important pieces to me..
Would mostly love to just replace it with a straight one..

Headlight covers are both messed up..

Thinking I’m not going to put a ton of work into the front fender, bumper, and headlight covers..
Debating on putting a 951 front on it, depending on what those parts would all cost..
I mean, I definitely would just do that if it was cheap..

Passengers door has a good dip in the bottom of it, might fix that..
But it also has 2 dings up higher that I don’t know if I should leave them or do the whole darn thing, which would mean stripping the door..
And if I strip the door, might as well just put a new door on it no?


I’m basically going to have to do the entire car, or let the little stuff slide..


Then what do I do about actual paint?
Patchwork paint?
Paint whole car?
Same color?

I like the red but it shows like EVERYTHING..
And it’s almost $500 a gallon!!

Found this paint that I think is pretty cool, is designed to kind of hide imperfections, and is almost $300 cheaper a gallon..


https://tcpglobal.com/collections/hot-rod-flatz-paint-sublime-green/products/kus-hrf1602-gl

What do you think of that? Heh
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