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Supercharged 924 NA
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8445
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You dont need to pull the exhaust.
I'll take a picture of where i placed the wideband.
You can actually even weld the bung with the exhaust on the car, i did that and it works fine.
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jacobroufa  



Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 390
Location: Rockford, IL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even for a noob like me?

I just picked up a welder; have never done this before. I have some learning to do..

Yes a picture of the location would be excellent! Thank you!

How goes your testing this past weekend?
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1980 Porsche 931
1981 Porsche 924 Weissach
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8445
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you can MIG weld around the bung if you place it right.
I've been away for a week or so, but now i'm back home.

I got to drive the 924 a bit before leaving and it drives as before, I took it to one of those historical rally events.
During the event, it has developed a vibration around 2500RPM, initial checks point towards a loose exhaust but i have to get the car on a lift to really check.

The 3D printed parts hold very well to boost as expected, however, as expected the clamps holding them loose tension. Tightening them again will result in damaging the 3D printed parts so the connection between the 3D printed parts and the silicone connectors must be ensured by friction rather than clamping.
This means that i need to re-design the TB piece, so that the oval connection has more surface for the silicone connector to adhere to.
Currently this is the weak spot as the oval needs to be under a lot of tension to keep the part in place...and i managed to deform the oval on the TB piece by overtightening it and then the heat soak did the rest.
I am however using those very thinly wrapped in carbon fiber parts and thicker epoxy+fibers would improve.

Next step is to re-design the TB piece to offer more surface on the oval connection, make room for a thicker wrap and then it really should be ready for the first batch of production.
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you thought about a hybrid approach using aluminum in the clamping areas only?

I just grabbed this pic off the net as an example so I don't know if it will be available forever...and its huge ...sigh...Edit: replacing image with something smaller



Edit...here is another approach


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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one is more of what you are doing so I am just throwing it in here. I would agree, more carbon in the stressed / clamped areas to increase hoop strength. Not sure if this is being vacuum bagged (peel ply / absorbent material / vacuum bag) to remove excess epoxy. excessive epoxy only weakens and adds nothing else as long as the fibers are properly wetted out before vacuuming/absorbing excess. Maybe even just using carbon tow to wrap those positions (I know this works). Leave a small depth groove in the print for the tow wrap in the clamp areas since tow is thin but still make several 'rounds' with the tow. Even if you have to smooth out the tow by sanding, a few discontinuous fibers won't hurt the overall 'tow ring' you create with the continuous tow.



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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8445
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Mike, yeah this is currently the idea i'm looking at (i considered a few more), a sandwich design, an aluminium oval ring insert to offer rigidity for the clamp, but it is adding another part to the package and its not an easy part to make.
I would have to mill it out of a plate....damn oval TB design
A lot of material and machine time waste as well...since i would mill out a 2mm thick oval ring out of a plate.
I'm going to try to water-jet cut this ring instead of milling it...then epoxy it into the printed part.
So far i dont see the need for this at the other round connections...but i may end up cutting some slices of pipe and inserting them into the prints for extra safety and making the kit capable to run more boost.

I was joking today with a friend that builds higher powered vw machines (500-700hp and such, his builds run more than 1.5bar while mine runs at what he considers tolerance for boost) and he said...well..at this boost level...you can say its almost supercharged
Very low boost indeed but with the high CR of the 924, it surely feels quick and fun.

On the other hand the car is lovely to drive, i'm pleased with the way everything works and feels as well as feeling confident about the capability of the CIS to keep up.
So far so good, will send out the DXF to the water-jet guys tomorrow.
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love it....Almost supercharged

Like the idea too for the waterjetted part. you control irregularities in the ring by simply working around it. Nice
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8445
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did this today as a test, the cut is too deep, too little material left..i was planning for 2mm thick ring but its barely 1mm...it may be enough or may not be, thats what i'm going to find out next. lets see how it holds up to some clamping and sustained heat.


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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8445
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Happy to report that the above idea works.
I've driven the car in hot traffic, flogged it every now and then and the plastic part did not collapse at all.
This is only a small added cost to the kit and it solves the problem.

The next and final step is to increase the overlap of the silicone coupler and this TB charge tube as even with maximum clamping force there is some slipping going on. This shows how much of a bottle neck is that original TB on the 924.

The climate here makes the mornings and evenings considerably colder than the mid-day air temps, and without an intercooler i can feel the difference as i could feel it in the non intercooled 931.
Next up is the intercooler upgrade for sure.
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8445
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Switched back to vacuum driven BOV rather than boost driven as the BOV i'm using is more responsive on vacuum. The idea was to limit the boost spikes that the TB charge tube takes.
AFR is now dancing a bit more, but on load it stays where it should and its stable and on decel it offers some low AFR extra fuel...some cooling for the valves...in the end i think i'll keep it this way as on boost AFR is good, idle and normal driving AFR is good..with occasional slightly lean(14) on part throttle cruising.

Been daily driving it for a bit now, easily keeps up with modern traffic, feels rewarding to drive, can quiet down to a comfy cruise if you need it to.
Nothing failed so far, seems stable enough to share with others. I will take my kit apart in the next days to do one final inspection of the components.

I need to re-visit the airbox mod a bit to finish that process description and sign off the release of the mold that produces the parts and then we're ready.

So lets do the first wave!
I want to do this in the following way, i leave my email address here and each of you that wants a set replicated and sent to, can write me an email.
Currently I'm only able to do 10 sets at a time, i want to keep this tidy, fair and if possible without delays.
So for now i want to do batches of 10 sets. As emails arrive i'll put you in a queue and when the first 10 sets have been ordered i'll inform everyone that comes after that that they are in for the second batch.

After you send the inquiry email, you will get a reply and a number/place.
Please start the email title with SUPERCHARGER so i can pick them easier out of the spam box...some emails will probably get there.
In the email please send the required information for me to ship you the package.
Production will only start after all 10 slots have been occupied and paid for.
First step is to register the first 10 people, then those 10 will need to commit and transfer the required sum and when all 10 have transferred the production starts.
If someone backs off or does not pay, i will either replace them with someone waiting in line or go ahead without them.
After payment phase has been completed i have to start production on the parts that i produce locally and i have to order all the parts that are not manufactured parts.
Production can and will probably take about a month.

So to be clear, here are the steps and timing explained:
1. we sign up to book the 10 places
2. we raise the money
3. I order off the shelf parts and production of the manufactured parts
4. I pickup & package everything and start sending parcels

Step 1 and step 2 will be mainly up to how fast people see this post, send me that email and then do the PayPal transfer.
Step 3 to 4 will in theory take approx 1 month starting with the end of step 3.
I cant promise anything that's not up to me, but i will do my best to avoid delays.
Before you commit, you have to know that you're going to pay for something and it will probably take more than one month before you get it.

I expect that from the time you sign up and pay to the day you get the package..there will be between 6 to 8 weeks...but in today's world anything is possible.

First batch can start production in 2 weeks.
Until then i need to finish all the small things, figure out packaging and organize the list.


Important part:
Transfer will only be made trough PayPal. I will give you the PP address privately, it is not the same email i use for correspondence.
More details about payment and related subjects discussed privately via email.
Price for the kit is 1050 euro, this is the net sum. Weather you want to send as a friend or as payment for goods is up to you, but the sum that has to reach me is 1050 euro.
After the first batch of 10 sets has been produced and sent i will do a re-evaluation of the price, perhaps we can lower it, perhaps we will have to increase it. We will see then, but for now we go with what i calculated.
If anything happens that impedes me from delivering, i will reimburse everyone.
There will be no returns, and no back payments after you commit, so be 100% sure this kit is what you want.
I'm not a company selling a homologated good, i'm just a guy that will transport your money to the local suppliers so that you can get a copy of my existing setup. You dont get any paper with it, you dont get any certificate, just some metal and some plastic in a box.
This is not a street legal product, it has been tested by me as you have seen documented above, be aware of this, it is your responsibility what you do with these parts.
The aim of the kit is to make you enjoy your 924 more. How you do that, is up to you.
The kit does not promise any HP number gain, there is no guarantee whatsoever other than the evidence that my car and my buddies car work and we like the car more with the kit on.
There is no quality standard guaranteed, you get the same stuff that i made for myself.
You can damage your car if you dont know what you are doing.
I will offer technical support within reasonable limits, i will offer spare parts at their cost + shipping.

Shipping is not included in the cost written above, i will only ship using the national post, with insurance on complete value.
Shipping will probably be up to 50 euro for Europe and up to 100 euro for USA.
I will keep everyone updated on the status of the builds, i will offer tracking numbers.


IMPORTANT FOR RHD only: RHD version is not yet fully developed but i have found a way to make it work.
Its going to be more costly as you will have to buy LHD alternator brackets and you wont be able to run an original alternator backplate/cooling shroud.


The email address for inquires is m0rghen@yahoo.com
The how to install video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DizZsXy0SDU&t=2111s
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jacobroufa  



Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 390
Location: Rockford, IL

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been waiting for this!! So excited to hear you are ready to take orders. Email sent!
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ChrisMadge  



Joined: 16 Dec 2020
Posts: 1
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you taking orders for RHD yet ?
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8445
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not yet, i need to sort out one more thing for RHD and then we are ready with that one as well.
Second batch will probably be 100% RHD
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8445
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going on a 700Km trip this weekend with the 924.
Will be climbing half way up a mountain with it.



Info for the guys that registered for a copy of the kit:
We will wait for more people to join, we dont have 10 orders yet.
There are people who read this board rarely and want this kit.

I want that the first 10 kits go to the people on this board, there surely will be some improvements to be made and i want this community to improve the kit rather than the wild open market to take a swing at it while its still in its infancy.
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8445
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From this weekend's drive:

Spent most of this past weekend driving the 924SC on what i can only describe as perfect roads...pure bliss.
Forget Stelvio pass, forget Transfagarasan...forget every road i've driven on in the Austrian, Italian and Swiss Alps...none come close to what Trans-Alpina has to offer.
I'm so lucky to have everything i have and the friends i have.
We spent Saturday driving around on perfect weather, perfect roads and perfect cars.
I got the chance to drive my old 931(guy did a nut and bolt restoration) as well as a slightly tricked out 951.
It was amazing to be able to experience these 3 different versions of the same platform.

951 is smooth, no drama but fast, it only makes you aware that it means business above 5000RPM...but if you look at the speedo you're already going plenty fast.
So, little effort and lots of speed, car feels a bit heavy tho...but wide tires make it a very capable car.
Even if you miss the powerband it makes up with its larger displacement and you never end up slowing down too much.
Very well set up and equipped from the factory in terms of suspension.

931 is rugged and that power surge around 4000RPM is the most dramatic rush to enjoy over and over again, it shows you its power every time you let it breathe above 4000RPM.
This one has some stiffer front springs and sits rather low but thats about it. It corners very well, feels very capable and lighter than the 951.
The only thing is that you have to work to keep it in the sweet spot to ride the power band.
If it werent for the supercharger, coilovers and 951 sway bars in my 924, the 931 would by far be my favorite of the three.

924SC is the most rugged car of the three, even rougher than the 931S1...but the most nimble and easiest to drive up the mountain.
You dont have to be so careful about keeping it in the power band as the charger is always there to push you up.
If it werent for the supercharger noise it would actually be a bit boring at higher RPMs as there isnt that power surge you get in the 931 and 951.
You never get a big surge of power, its rather linear all around the RPM range...but you get a constant pull that you can always count on.
That alone frees up a lot of brain time so you can focus on placing the car perfectly in corners and even gazing at the beauty of nature.
This particular 924 has stiff springs, polyurethane bushings and 951 sway bars so it feels very very crisp and sharp to chuck around.
The supercharger complements the suspension perfectly, bringing in a responsiveness only found in large displacement naturally aspirated engines.

No failures, car never missed a beat, never overheated, sounded and ran flawlessly all the way.
Way up to the mountain was a 3h highway, kept it solidly planted at 4000RPM, 130-140kph with occasional sprints up to 170-180kph.
Pleasant surprise is that the extra torque from the charger can be enjoyed even at those cruising speeds..so when you need to sprint up, it feels alive and eager to go compared to the normal NA where you press the pedal, there is noise..but the go does not match the noise.

In the end, i prefer my 924 over the other two but the 931 is the most dramatic and rewarding to drive if you get it right....and the 951 is simply the best, most evolved and fastest machine.
Its best is at the apex where you get on the throttle and start pulling away immediately.
This supercharger setup extends the useable power range downwards and slightly nudges the upper RPM power values upwards, however due to the extension downwards it feels like it plateaus at higher rpms.
I noticed the car being a bit down on power higher up in the mountains versus how it usually feels, and i think that effect is a bit less noticeable in the 931 and 951 however, even with that aspect the car was simply amazing to drive.
I have never been happier with a 924 as i am with this supercharged 924. Its nowhere near as fast as a tricked out 951, its nowhere near as dramatic as the 931...but its easy to drive, feels light on its feet and very very rewarding to drive without the need to drive dangerously fast and/or keep it at high revs.
The 924SC works for its bread up the mountain but it does so happily, singing away trough that charger and making me smile and feel damn proud!



https://youtu.be/4VdZP8OGIGk






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