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924-76
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 1489
Location: Ontario, Canada
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 Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| RC wrote: | | Are there any local casting firms in your area Claude, that may like to take a mould and cast 10 or 20 or 50 of these? |
Never thought about it, good idea; I should investigate.
It might end up being too price base on the fact that it would be a small batch.
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1976 924 N/A ROW SOLD
1980 931S
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924-76
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 1489
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Please educate me, I know nothing to aluminum casting.
Do you need to alter the original part to reproduce it?
How do aluminum casting works?
How do you make the mold?
Feel free to post Youtube link that would answer my question.
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Kenodog
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2667
Location: Vancouver,B.C.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Claude, it isn't difficult at all. They use the original to make a mold ($5,000) and then each unit is actually quite cheap because it is based on a nominal caost per piece + weight of aluminum used per piece. I looked into getting exhaust manifolds done about 6-7 years ago and the quote was 5k for the mold + $2/lb. for Inconel 625 material. Flange machining would be extra but not alot because a) I have a machine shop and b) they could be done quickly in 3 mill set-ups. The beautiful thing too is you wouldn't need to recast the 3 bolt flange, it could be changed to a common 4 bolt T3 flange.
Me
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RC
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 2637
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed, it is not difficult, although not the kind of thing to DIY at home. The EPA has closed most backyard melting pots near residential areas but there appear to be quite a few foundries in your area.
http://www.candj-foundry.com/aluminum-foundry.html
http://www.alloy-foundry.com/
http://www.alcasttechnologies.com/
And lots more according to google.
Sure it wouldn't hurt to make a few phone calls or go for a short drive with your part to get a more definitive idea of processes and costs.
Various methods may be used to take an impression & plugs of the original, which will not be damaged. Sand molds are used for short runs like this will be.
Smaller & more flexible businesses may be more interested in some work than those with large production contracts.
Kenodog has a ballpark figure of the costs involved. Not exactly small change. Even as an investment opportunity it is a viable proposition IMO if you have funds available, or alternatively with the possibility of a group buy here of say 20 units it makes <$500 manifolds feasible.
Sure there would be interest at that price point, even on this forum. A more realistic price for a few Kg of melted aluminum than some others on ebay! Same as Mittlemotor have done, although theirs looks like it was shipped from China!
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Cedric
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2761
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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The manifold that the GTS guys are selling looks top notch, since it's done by real professionals (they do prototypes for oems, we use them at work), since it's in sweden things costs more. I think its at 2000usd ex VAT if you want to buy a one. They did a CAD design based on the original manifold and replicated it that way.
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924-76
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 1489
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks to everyone for the info, very helpful
I educate myself a bit watching some Youtube video like this one:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDyyJ_I0hBw
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Cédric wrote: | | RC wrote: | Awesome score indeed!
Are there any local casting firms in your area Claude, that may like to take a mould and cast 10 or 20 or 50 of these?
Hmm... I smell opportunity cooking...  |
Its already been done by the guys doing the GTS rally replica, although its pretty pricey  |
They have contacted me and asked if I'd be interested (I am) in doing some of these. If anybody wants in and is willing to pool your money with mine, we can get a batch of these made. If I recall, price was about USD$2K with recent SEK exchange rate.
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peterld
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Count me in...subject to an appropriate schedule of costings.
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 9080
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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2k for what? the mold or /part?
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Kenodog
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
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Location: Vancouver,B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Per part I think. I would rather invest the 5k in a mold and make our own. Cost per unit would be waaaaay cheaper than 2k !
Me
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1981 931, Sabine
1991 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4, Ricky
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 9080
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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2k for a part is absurd, ffs its @1.5k at mittlemotor ready to buy.
If there are 10 guys putting in 6-700 then we all get a GTS rep manifold as 5k will be spent for the mold and the rest is labor and material.
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Cedric
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| morghen wrote: | 2k for a part is absurd, ffs its @1.5k at mittlemotor ready to buy.
If there are 10 guys putting in 6-700 then we all get a GTS rep manifold as 5k will be spent for the mold and the rest is labor and material. |
Mittlemotors looks quite rough i must say, looks like a chinese replica . The GTS guys replica manifold looks more like the one in the top post here, smooth sand cast. For a top notch cast part with very few made 2k is pretty reasonable in my world. But sure the price should drop pretty steeply with the ammount of units.
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Kenodog
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2667
Location: Vancouver,B.C.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:42 am Post subject: |
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How about a 3D scan and then cast it in fibre reinforced plastic ?
Me
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1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
1991 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4, Ricky
1996 Ford E-350 ex-FedEx Van
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
2024 KLX300
2024 KLX140 |
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peterld
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 978
Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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^^^^ Now that is super appealing.
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924-76
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 1489
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 9:23 am Post subject: |
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I contacted 3 shops located in Ontario and their responses are pretty depressing
Shop 1 | Quote: | | Sorry this is not a good fit for our process. |
Shop 2 | Quote: | | We have had a good look at your item and feel it should be cast using a permanent mold. We only cast in sand. |
Shop 3 | Quote: | Without 3D cad and dimensioned drawings, I wouldn't be able to put
together a quote for a project like this.
For reference, I've quoted 'antique' manifolds in the past, and you
should probably count on around $20 000 for tooling and for the raw
casting, weigh it and multiply the weight by $20 to get a rough casting
cost. (10lb casting would be about $200). Machining would be an
additional cost that I couldn't project unless I saw the part / drawings.
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Basically, they all told me to F... off.
I tried
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1980 931S
1981 931 Part car RIP |
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