924Board.org

[ProudGecko]

I bought a 1988 924S about a month ago and I love it, but as the weather has been getting colder I've heard a high pitched whistle when ever I push the accelerator. After the engine has warmed up to normal operating temperature the whistle seems to go away.

Also as a side note I hear a sort of clunk some times when shifting. Could it be the bushings, also my car has an after market shifter.

[jcope]

Welcome to the board!

The whistle was an option. I don't have the part number. Before they cancelled the 924S production, they specified a redesign that included a flute upgrade for more power. I've heard some guys have found a way to get a trumpet on there. Probably costs more than it's worth.

I don't know about the clunk. It is very common for these cars to be difficult to shift.

Did you try a search for related topics on the forum? Won't get you much on the whistle, but might give you some better ideas on the transmission.

[ This Message was edited by: jcope on 2002-10-30 10:00 ]

[jcope]

Actually, you might check the vacuum lines to find the whistle. The lines are hard plastic and the joints are rubber that seems prone to dry rot. Sorry for the smart ass whistle answer. It amused me.

Does it clunk between all gears at any speed?

[ProudGecko]

Yes it clunks at all speeds and in all gears, if my clutch work is good the sound is minimal.

Unrelated to the clunking, at least i think, the car seems to shudder when accelerating quickly or decelerating quickly. My guess is engine mounts or tranny mounts. Does that seem reasonable, if so how hard are they to change?

[gohim]

I hope your wallet is real fat, because you are going to need it.

The rubber center in the clutch disc is disintegrating, and will need to be replaced along with the rest of the clutch kit.

This involves the removal of the transmission and pulling th drive tube back, or pulling the engine out.

Figure $400-$500 for parts, depending on where you get them, and $500-$1000 for labor. Depending on where you have the work done.

Stop driving the car until you get the work done, driving the car in this condition will ruin the transmission, and/or leave you stranded on the side of the road when the clutch center completely goes.

While you have the car in, unless you got complete service documetation, that prooves that the "front of engine" service has been done in the past 30K miles, or three years, should should also be done immediately, or you are risking your engine if the belts fail.

"Front of engine" service Parts and service typically costs $1000-$2000 depending on where you buy the parts, and who does the work. Someone else just posted that he just had the service done for about $900, which I though was dirt cheap, but I don;t know if he got all the parts replaced. This service includes new camshaft and balance shaft belts, water pump, front engine oil seals, pulleys, and rollers. The failure of any of these parts will cause engine damage requiring $2000-$4000 in repairs.

Yeah, you are going to be out lots of money right now. Because of the cost many 924S and 944 owners fail to do the service, and end up trashing their engines when the belts or other parts fail, or sell the cars with broken engines, or sell the cars when the service is due.

[jcope]

Jeez, gohim. How discouraging you sound.

Gecko, It seems very common for people just buying a 924S to have to sink another $2K-$3K to get it up to maintenance spec. So don't feel like you got screwed. I bought mine for $3900 and ended up spending another $3500. These cars are aging. Typically when you see one on the market, it's because it's about due for maintenance. When they don't need maintenance, they are as cheap as any other car to run and 5 times cooler and more fun. So people don't generally let them go. Just an observation.

If you make the fixes and get the car running right, then you'll really be a Proud Gecko. And a pretty Fast Gecko. And maybe a Broke Gecko.

I don't know about shuddering during acceleration/deceleration. My motor mounts were bad when I got my car (87 924S). The car vibrated pretty badly at idle (sitting still), but at any engine speed not far above idle it ran very smoothly. So I guess it depends more on the engine speed than it does on whether you are speeding up or slowing down. I tend to drive with the RPMs high enough that I only noticed the vibes when I was not moving, especially when the engine was cold.

[ProudGecko]

Thanks jcope for all your advice and the numerous gecko and whistle jokes lol. I figured I'd have to put a new clutch in when i bought the car. Do have any places that you recommend for purchasing a clutch kit. Also do you think its worth the extra money to put in a higher performance clutch.

About the vacuum lines ... what do they do, are they expensive to replace, and do i need to replace them immediately. I realize that is my inexperience talking but hey I'm learning.

[Lizard]

as for the clutch I have heard it is a wast of time and money to put in a high performance clutch but if you want get the 951 clutch and pressure plate if anything

[jcope]

The vacuum lines are little plastic lines that run all around the engine compartment. They are maybe 3/16" outside diameter and not very pliable. They connect to various engine components and to each other by little rubber connectors that slip over the end. The origin of the vacuum is at the intake manifold on the right side of the engine as you are looking in. Follow them around and make sure they are all connected to something.

I'm going out on a limb here, but I think the things I'm saying are essentially right. Hopefully, Gohim or Vaughan or someone else will correct me if I'm wrong. Basically the manifold sucks air into the engine for combustion, creating a vacuum that can be used for some sensors and regulators. Your fuel injection system relies on the vacuum. The amount of vacuum tells some of the sensors how hard the engine is working, and that information gets to the ECU, located under your steering wheel in front of your knees. The ECU determines when the spark should happen in each cylinder and also regulates the air/fuel mixture for optimum efficiency. The oxygen sensor on the tail pipe tells the ECU how good a job it's doing. If there is a vacuum leak because of a disconnected line then the engine pulls some air into the manifold through the vacuum line instead of getting it all through the air filter and none of the sensors get accurate information.

I would think, depending on the nature of the opening, if a vacuum line were broken or the little rubber connector was cracked, there is potential for a whistle. Depending on the engine speed and the temperature of the engine compartment. Of course, anywhere along the air intake there could be an opening creating a whistle, not just with the vacuum lines.

Also, I don't know much about the clutch, except that I had to pay $1250 for the Porsche guys to put a new one in. I wouldn't see much value in a high performance clutch, unless you're planning to make significant upgrades to the motor. Maybe someone can enlighten me on the value of one. You could put in a 951 (944 turbo) clutch, if you wanted to. I'd probably put a 951 clutch in my car, if my car was a 951.

[ This Message was edited by: jcope on 2002-10-31 05:56 ]

[Lizard]

you are correct on how the vaccum system works and as for the high performance clutch you aren't going to notice a difference unless you have a SH*T load of power and then it is more the pressure plate that holds the power. the high performance clutch disc just last abit longer that is all but puts more strain/wear on the flywheel/pressure plate

[jcope]

Would you say it would be better to plug a vacuum line that you can't find the connection for than to just let it hang loose?

[Stu2j]

""Jeez, gohim. How discouraging you sound.""

He's always really down on these cars because of maintenance cost relative to the car's market value.

Fact is, to own the latest trendy SUV would cost around $500 per month and nobody would notice it regardless of who made it.

My 924S turns more heads, is a lot more fun to drive, and I paid cash for it. Even if the car's maintenance cost is $2000 this year, I'll still have paid less than the SUV owner and I'll be driving a much nicer car.

The 924S is currently the best Porsche for the money.

[jcope]

I don't agree with your assessment of gohim. If he thought it wasn't worth it, he wouldn't be doing it.

Maybe he likes to shock the new guys with the responsibility they didn't know they were signing up for when they bought their Porsche. I sort of agree with that. I hate to think there are Porsches, especially 924s, out there not being treated right. Cheap parts. Bad mechanics. Poor maintenance. There should be a law.

Everything else I agree about. I think the 968 is getting close in terms of bang for buck.

[ This Message was edited by: jcope on 2002-10-31 09:13 ]

[Stu2j]

""I don't agree with your assessment of gohim. If he thought it wasn't worth it, he wouldn't be doing it.""

Does he even own a 924S? I just wish his posts weren't *all* doom and gloom. Kinda takes the fun out of the cars.

Reading his posts one would think that if you didn't perform the 30k maint on time that the engine would fall out at 30.1k and that simply isn't the case. Further, the cost isn't as bad as he would lead the reader the believe.

I would like to think that folks who buy 16 year old cars realize that there are potential maintenance issues and that some of these may be a tad costly. After all, these aren't your parents Fords and Chevys eh?

What does a brand new Saturn sport coupe go for, 17-18 thousand minimum? Park it next to my 16 year old 924S that cost 1/5th the price and see which one generates more interest.

[gohim]

Stu2j,

I have owned atleast 924 constantly, since 1981. I have a tendency to keep my cars for long periods of time. Sometimes I have more than one. Right now I have (4) Porsches, a 73 914 2.0 (since 77), a 81 924 (since 8, 83 944 parts car (bought 02), and a 87 924S (since 00). I know all about long term ownership issues.

I do all my own repairs, maintanence, and modifications, and have since 77 on my Porsches. Can you say the same thing?

Personally, I would own them, regardless of the "brand" stamped on the cars.

924S/944 ownership expenses are much higher than those of the 924. Many of the guys and gals posting on this board are younger than 22, and have no idea of what they were getting into, when they purchase one of these cars.

924s are cheaper to buy, run, and repair than 924S cars. Non-Interference engine, $10 timing belts, $50 water pumps, $20 cap and rotor, 25-35mpg, and the great 924 shape. Other than the low HP, what's not to love?

You just bought your 924S, and maybe you haven't noticed all the activity on the board regarding broken belts, leaking water pumps, leaking cooler seals, and ruined bearings, and engines. Just keep driving without checking the oil, coolant, and replacing the belts every 3 years, or 30K miles, and we'll see what you say when it happens to you.

Anyone running more than 30K-32K miles on the belts is the fool (often read about), who will be soon parted from lots of money. There are numerous documented belt and water pump seal failures that have been reported on this board, as well as the RennList, and in PCA Panorama. The only people who might advise a 924S/944 owner to run further than that on belts is probably in the engine repair/replacement business, and is waiting for 924S/944 owners to put their kids through college, and fund their retirement.

There are several cases on this board right now, of guys that bought cars recently with no idea of what is involved in owning and maintaining one. these people are asking questions, because they have problems. They need to know what will be involved, so they can make the right decision for themselves about how to go about making repairs, junking, or selling their cars.

I am tired of seeing trashed Porsches on the road, because the owners don't have the financial resouces or knowledge to see their cars properly maintained.

While the trashed cars soon become cheap replacement parts for the surviving cars, or project cars, they also lower the resale value of our surviving cars. Diminish the value of one, and you diminish the value of all.

When someone asks me about owning one of these cars when they are thinking about buying one, I make sure to point out the high points, and pitfalls of owning one.

[ This Message was edited by: gohim on 2002-10-31 10:22 ]