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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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 Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:28 am Post subject: |
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I was just pointing out that for a turbo it isn't a great area of gain for the cost and weight penalty. I don't think I have ever seen it done on a turbo either (??) The short intake comment on my part was to eliminate lag hence my little comment about the intercooler. The velocity comment was related to short exhaust tubing from head to turbo which keeps things hot and exhaust velocity high to spin the turbo.
Not that I don't want to discourage or see this built for testing, I do. I love this kind of stuff.
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Insane
Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Kyiv
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:53 am Post subject: |
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It seems there is a simple solution:
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:05 am Post subject: |
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Doesn't look simple 
How about some details? What application is this from? How does it work? The sliders appear to be on the opposite side, and can't make out how they're attached or how they impact the airflow.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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Insane
Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Kyiv
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:27 am Post subject: |
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This is fro yamaha R6
Already showcased on last year's R1, the 2008 R6 utilizes the Yamaha Chip Controlled Intake (YCC-I) system, which features variable-length intake trumpets that fluctuate dependant on RPM
they use ecu for that but I believe this can be done in more simple way.
Mechanics as I understand it:
individual TB with splitted stepped diameter runners inserted one in another and sealed. They should be straight. And the spring for tension in one of directions.
that's simple.
Another thing which is more complicated is the mechanism which will actually change inner runner position:
mechanically this can be either a motor or a pneumatic system.
In case of a motor you can use something like 924 headlight mechanism controlled with tacho signal (like a shift light).
You can take 10 shiftlight controllers and set them for different RPM - then you'll need a 10 step motor.
here is related topic http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1740
and a post from the man who have done it
http://www.auto-teknix.co.uk/Race_Elise.html
more yamaha photos
http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_0907_2010_aprilia_rsv4_factory/photo_07.html |
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Insane
Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Kyiv
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| sorry. first pic was from mazda lemans car r26r |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| Insane wrote: | This is fro yamaha R6
Already showcased on last year's R1, the 2008 R6 utilizes the Yamaha Chip Controlled Intake (YCC-I) system, which features variable-length intake trumpets that fluctuate dependant on RPM
they use ecu for that but I believe this can be done in more simple way.
Mechanics as I understand it:
individual TB with splitted stepped diameter runners inserted one in another and sealed. They should be straight. And the spring for tension in one of directions.
that's simple.
Another thing which is more complicated is the mechanism which will actually change inner runner position:
mechanically this can be either a motor or a pneumatic system.
In case of a motor you can use something like 924 headlight mechanism controlled with tacho signal (like a shift light).
You can take 10 shiftlight controllers and set them for different RPM - then you'll need a 10 step motor.
here is related topic http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1740
and a post from the man who have done it
http://www.auto-teknix.co.uk/Race_Elise.html
more yamaha photos
http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_0907_2010_aprilia_rsv4_factory/photo_07.html |
Why not use a micro-controller? Use the tach signal as you say and a small servo? The sky is the limit here. Would be neat to see more of a motorcycle variable system in its different states.
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Insane
Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Kyiv
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| Mike9311 wrote: |
Why not use a micro-controller? Use the tach signal as you say and a small servo? The sky is the limit here. Would be neat to see more of a motorcycle variable system in its different states. |
cause I know nothing about micro-controllers  but I believe it's the best way to go.
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1798
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:39 am Post subject: |
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...and we need the system $$$ 
Those are good pics. Lots of huh, that's what they are doing.
We need those heads too  Check out the intake runner 
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Insane
Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Kyiv
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:24 am Post subject: |
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These are fascinating!
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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Rich H
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 2665
Location: Preston, Lancs, UK
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Interesting concept, as the inlet speed increases the intake dynamics change 
_________________
1994 Lotus Esprit S4 - Work in progress...
1980 Porsche 924 S2 DITC Turbo - Original spec
1978 Homo-Sapiens - Tired spec
1953 Landrover S1 - Pensioner Spec |
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Insane
Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Kyiv
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="ideola"]
These are fascinating!
how does it work? |
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Rich H
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 2665
Location: Preston, Lancs, UK
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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I would assume that at high revs/vacuum the airflow is drawn from both the upper larger inlet and the lower smaller lip giving large short air flow.
At lower revs/vacuum the airflow would tend to follow a straighter track giving a smaller effective area and increasing flow speed giving more torque. There will be a degree of contrainment trading airspeed for volume as air is drawn from the lower lip.
How effective it would be compared with an active system, I'd be a bit suspect in practice, there is likely to be a bit of fun and games around the change over between the regimes. But I'm no aerodynamacist! 
_________________
1994 Lotus Esprit S4 - Work in progress...
1980 Porsche 924 S2 DITC Turbo - Original spec
1978 Homo-Sapiens - Tired spec
1953 Landrover S1 - Pensioner Spec |
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