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Downforce needed on front
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fiat22turbo  



Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the picture it certainly looks like you've got plenty of body movement happening and stiffening the suspension would help control the weight transfer (you can't stop it, but you can control the rate at which it transfers, which is the important bit to remember)

What are you running for shocks/struts? Might want to check out the options mentioned in the performance thread to get some ideas, plus there are other options from some of the vendors out there depending on your needs/wants.

If you're thinking of buying aftermarket springs, it might be worthwhile to just upgrade to adjustable coil spring sleeves and 2.5" coil springs. The sleeves are cheap, easy to get and relatively easy to install, use good quality springs and you can alter your spring rates and height to your hearts desire, plus gain some room on the inboard side of the suspension for wider tires.

Alternatively, cutting springs is okay, provided you don't overheat the springs or go too far and run out of travel in the suspension. I've got a spare set of springs that I'd give you for the price of shipping if you're interested in trying it out yourself. I think they may be lowering springs come to think of it, I'll have a look see later.

Just be aware that the shocks are an integral part of the suspension tuning game and running too little damping with too much spring rate does not make for a fun car to drive

Go slowly when making adjustments like this and try not to change too much at once so you don't adjust yourself off the end of the earth and end up unhappy with the way the car drives.

I still think a front air dam would help a lot, but if the car is rolling and pitching its effectiveness is lessened substantially.
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bcblase  



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Winchester, VA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Front: 250# Weltmeister springs with KYB gas struts
Rear: Bilstein Sport gas shocks, with adjuster bolts lowered all the way.

On a level surface with 15" tires, the car sits almost exactly 3.5 inches from the ground on all four corners.

I guess at some point coilovers would be nice, but I'm trying to watch the budget this year. I figured cutting the coils would be a cheap way to lower the car a little in the front.

I like the bigger wing on the hatch, just from an appearance standpoint, soo I think I'll keep that.

I'll start with the front air dam/spoiler/splitter and see what it does.

I like the way the car handles right now - and my first instructor kept looking for the non-existent "Oh Sh*t" handle as we went into the turns and braking zones. That tells me things are working pretty well, at least from the persepctive of the passenger seat.

Brad
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Joes924Racer  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool great.I think 250# Weltmeister springs come in lowered lengths bout 1 1/2" s worth.
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 9075
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bcblase wrote:

On a level surface with 15" tires, the car sits almost exactly 3.5 inches from the ground on all four corners.

That's very low, particularly with such soft spring rates. At very least, you will definitely want to dial in some rake - start with 1/2" by raising the rear. Be sure to realign after.

bcblase wrote:

I like the way the car handles right now - and my first instructor kept looking for the non-existent "Oh Sh*t" handle as we went into the turns and braking zones. That tells me things are working pretty well, at least from the persepctive of the passenger seat.


I wouldn't count on that... probably means more about his confidence level in your driving (justified or not). Did I mention I never want to instruct for DEs?

Regarding pics of the car on track - don't forget that the car will always look like it's nose-high, even when level, because of the uneven fender cuts on the wheels front vs. rear.
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Cedric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so you use welt 250s at the front and standard bars at the back? Not a great combination. Probably gives you the understeer that you think are aero problems..

My car isnt low at all with the 250s at the front. Have you already done something at the front?


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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cédric wrote:
so you use welt 250s at the front and standard bars at the back? Not a great combination


+1, the car left the factory with a slight understeer, and stiffening the front made it worse. The factory or Lindsey 19mm adjustable rear ARB might get some of that back.

And, the toofah body on stock suspension pitches around quite a bit on the track. . .an instructor without experience in one will think it's about to roll. My first "check ride" person for Cascade sure did!


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Cedric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rasta Monsta wrote:
Cédric wrote:
so you use welt 250s at the front and standard bars at the back? Not a great combination


+1, the car left the factory with a slight understeer, and stiffening the front made it worse. The factory or Lindsey 19mm adjustable rear ARB might get some of that back.

And, the toofah body on stock suspension pitches around quite a bit on the track. . .an instructor without experience in one will think it's about to roll. My first "check ride" person for Cascade sure did!



What do you mean, my car stays totaly flat !!


(1979 stock susp, 23mm/14mm arb + sticky r-compund tyres, and yes the gt3 got whipped by me )
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cédric wrote:
What do you mean, my car stays totaly flat !!


Yes, I can see that from your avatar. . .looks quite similar to mine!


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Cedric  



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rasta Monsta wrote:
Cédric wrote:
What do you mean, my car stays totaly flat !!


Yes, I can see that from your avatar. . .looks quite similar to mine!



Avatar was actually one of the first autoX i did with the na, on crap tyres. That made the roll angles reasonable, but with r-compund its more like scraping door handles as can be seen above. My 931 is a different story...

to bcblase, why not get some larger torsion bars? Really cheap on cip1.com.
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bcblase  



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgot to add that I have the 951 M030 sways (ARB) on the front and rear.

30 mm hollow on the front
19 mm on the rear


Brad
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Rasta Monsta  



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks like a fun corner. VIR?
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Fifty50Plus  



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shennandoah circuit at Summit Point. Decreasing radius off-camber right turn followed immediately by opening up still down hill left hander.
No one has ever gotten this right! Woo hoo!!!!
Chuck
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Joes924Racer  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice really nice..bcblase is getting track time.
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thirdgenbird  



Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ive thought about using one of these to try and balance out my 944 duckbill:


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bcblase  



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck nailed that one - and a very good technical description...

Some people hate the Shenandoah Circuit, but I find it loads of fun, especially when you can stay on the tail a Corvette ZR-1 for most of the circuit - that really pisses them off.

Brad
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