| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK
|
 Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:45 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
I've encountered 3 different alloy trailing arm styles or castings. The ones found on 924S and 86' 944 models have a round flat area cast in to them in the same place as the rubber bump stop is on the steel arms. 87- arms without ABS have the ABS sensor mounting cast into them but not drilled out, and the ABS models of course have the mounting drilled out.
The arms themselves are all identical in terms of dimentions. All hubs and spindles are interchangable (you would have to drill out the ABS sensor locations though).
It's the 87' hubs/spindles that create the extra track and NOT the the trailing arms in them selves.
This has been mentioned here lots of times in the past! Even seasoned members here could do with using the search function it would seem.
Paragon should STOP selling dangerous and life threatening products if they hve proof of such failures. I will seek to find out why they are doing so! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. The flange in which the rear hub bearing is pressed into is about 2-3" longer on the M030 trailing arms, it requires a different bearing, has a different part number, and also requires a longer attachment linkage at the handbrake lever to allow the same length handbrake cable to work. The M030 / 89-onward trailing arms are definitely different. It may well be the hub that gives the extra track, but the arms themselves are also different.
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here is a pic of the 968 rear dampers (M030).
Thats also a 951 M030 trailing arm. Again, its the hub and NOT the arm that decides the offset.
On this occasion you are wrong... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
I didn't say it was the arm that made the track different, I just said that the arm is different. It is.
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
Look in PET.
944 1983-1985.5
Trailing arm 944.331.021.01 & 944.331.022.01 (steel)
924S
Trailing arm 951.331.021.01 & 951.331.022.01 (alu)
944/951 1985.5-1986:
Trailing arm 951.331.021.01 & 951.331.022.01 (alu)
944/951 87-onward M030
Trailing arm 951.331.021.31 & 951.331.022.31 (alu)
944/951 87-onward M030/593
Trailing arm 951.331.021.32 & 951.331.022.32 (alu)
968 Thru model year 1992
Trailing arm 951.331.021.31 & 951.331.022.31 (alu)
968 93-onward
Trailing arm 944.331.021.01 & 944.331.022.01 (steel ?!?!?)
I know they are different because I had to sort all of this out when I shipped the stuff to Australia. I had 944 and 951 trailing arms side by side, and the M030 arms the flange is different. Again, as you pointed out, it's may be the hub that affects offset, but its the trailing arm that affects the required length of the hand brake cable. The bearings are also different. If I still had a set of both I would photograph them to show you, but the I've shipped all of the earlier styles down under and don't have any sitting around at the moment, only the later style. Also, the later alu arms may not be interchangeable with the earlier hubs, this I don't know conclusively.
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flosho
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 3160
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ic932 wrote: |
Paragon should STOP selling dangerous and life threatening products if they hve proof of such failures. I will seek to find out why they are doing so! |
Who said Paragon was selling dangerous and/or life threatening products?
_________________
[This Space For Rent] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| flosho wrote: | I've read of a couple people breaking/cracking the alloy arms, as well as bending steel trailing arms, but never the shock mount.
I've also heard of people shearing the lower shock bolt off because it was not 100% flush.
The guys at paragon-products actually told me the steel trailing arms are better for coilovers because they will bend before the break, causing less damage. |
you did. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flosho
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 3160
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The lower shock mount bolt failing is because of improper torque / installation error + physics.
The wrecked trailing arms are from fatigued or over stressed alloy arms with people running super stiff spring rates.
_________________
[This Space For Rent] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ideola wrote: | Look in PET.
944 1983-1985.5
Trailing arm 944.331.021.01 & 944.331.022.01 (steel)
924S
Trailing arm 951.331.021.01 & 951.331.022.01 (alu)
944/951 1985.5-1986:
Trailing arm 951.331.021.01 & 951.331.022.01 (alu)
944/951 87-onward M030
Trailing arm 951.331.021.31 & 951.331.022.31 (alu)
944/951 87-onward M030/593
Trailing arm 951.331.021.32 & 951.331.022.32 (alu)
968 Thru model year 1992
Trailing arm 951.331.021.31 & 951.331.022.31 (alu)
968 93-onward
Trailing arm 944.331.021.01 & 944.331.022.01 (steel ?!?!?)
I know they are different because I had to sort all of this out when I shipped the stuff to Australia. I had 944 and 951 trailing arms side by side, and the M030 arms the flange is different. Again, as you pointed out, it's may be the hub that affects offset, but its the trailing arm that affects the required length of the hand brake cable. The bearings are also different. If I still had a set of both I would photograph them to show you, but the I've shipped all of the earlier styles down under and don't have any sitting around at the moment, only the later style. Also, the later alu arms may not be interchangeable with the earlier hubs, this I don't know conclusively. |
No need to look in pet. I have these parts and further more I have removed the hubs/spindles from a 924S with badly corroded alloy arms and switched them to good M030 arms.
Whats this flange that you are talking about? Do you mean the hub? If so then of course its different! it pushes the wheels out by a further inch (approx).
I think you've searched pet, seen a whole lot of different part numbers and then decided that certain parts are of a completly different design just to fit in with your WRONG assumptions.
Theres casting differences in the arms, mainly to do with ABS. Just like theres casting differences in S2 front A arms (tabs for the brake cooling ducts) you will find DIFFERENT part numbers for these too but they retro-fit earlier post 86 A arms perfectly.
It is clear to me that you are clutching at straws on this issue. Luckily for you this is a 924 forum. I really don't know what your agenda is but it's not healthy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ic932 wrote: | | It is clear to me that you are clutching at straws on this issue. Luckily for you this is a 924 forum. I really don't know what your agenda is but it's not healthy. |
Dude, back off, your hostile tone is unnecessary.
The trailing arms are different, and no, I didn't just base it on part numbers. I had five complete five lug systems spread out on my garage floor from various 944's and 951's, so I'm basing my assertions on visual inspection, and supporting them with documented sources.
Here are some photos:
On the left, we have a complete 5-lug setup, the trailing arms specifically coming from a non-M030 1987 944; on the right, we have a complete 5-lug setup, the trailing arms specifically coming from a 1989 944S2 with ABS
 
Here we have close ups of the ends of the trailing arms, early setup on the left, late setup on the right:
 
 
As you can clearly see, on the later trailing arms from the 1989 944S2 with ABS, the housing portion into which the bearings are pressed is about an inch longer than the earlier style. This is CLEARLY visible when the handbrake shoes are in place. Unfortunately, I don't have a photo of an early trailing arm with the handbrake shoes intact. However, when the handbrake shoes are in place, on the earlier arms, there is a gap of only a few mm between the edge of the handbrake shoes and the inside flange of the hub, while the hub sits out about an inch further on the later style due to the housing being about an inch longer, as these photos clearly illustrate.
I know this to be the case because I very carefully inspected these arms to determine if they were interchangeable. With the rear rotors removed and the handbrake assembly removed, it was very obvious in a side by side comparison that the later style arms stick out about an inch further for the bearing housing than the earlier style. I had to be careful about this because it was important that when I shipped this stuff to the boys down under that they were getting a combination of parts that would work together with a minimum of fuss. All of the parts I received were clearly labeled as to the model year and make of the donor (i.e. 944 vs. 951 vs. 944S vs. 944S2 etc.).
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
(pats Dan on the back for staying chill)
_________________
Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rasta Monsta wrote: | | (pats Dan on the back for staying chill) |
I'm learning 
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chrenan
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 3903
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ooooh, ic932, you got served!!!
Watcha gonna do now?
Flame War, Flame War, Flame War!!!!!
I'm bored. Entertain me!
_________________
1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
hmmm....not so fast.
Take a look the 968 damper pic i posted above showing a late offset hub (in this case M030 951). Please note the three hub-centric flanges surrounding the large centre nut (only 1 clearly visable).
Now look at Dan's "S2" pic on the left...it's actually NOT an 87- hub at all. It's an 86. He has removed the centre nut and the hub has slightly moved forward...but not nearly enough to replicate the inch extra track that a real S2 hub has.
Crenan, if you are bored kindly check your 87' 951 to see which rear hub you have. Removing the centre cap will be sufficient.
I'm not being hostile, just correcting a mistake thats all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ic932
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ideola, and I quote - "On the left, we have a complete 5-lug setup, the trailing arms specifically coming from a non-M030 1987 944; on the right, we have a complete 5-lug setup, the trailing arms specifically coming from a 1989 944S2 with ABS"
I think this statement sums up, and is the reason for your confusion. ALL 944 87- trailing arms have the late style hubs. In your stated comparison (non-m030 1987 & 89 944S2) you are actually comparing what you think is early and late offsets...which of course would be 86' and any 87-
The good news for you is that you have 86' early offset arms (as pictured) and are therefore much more sought after amongst the 924 brigade....you should pay me a commission for identifying your parts for you.
Ooooh, ideola, you got served!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
924 FAQ (Technical)
