924Board.org

[cathy]

Hey guys,
Okay, it's back in the shop... I took my 82 924 in for an inspection and was told I needed a tierod on my passenger side. So, I ordered one from Performance, waited a week for it to come in, then back to my mechanic.

I called today to find out how things are going. One of the guys told me the tierod is in (as are my new rear tires), and that my mechanic was doing an alignment.

Question: what does an alignment entail? Is it difficult? And is it expensive? I really do trust my mechanic, but feel stupid when I ask him a million questions every time I see him. My stomach is in knots because I am always afraid of how much things will cost. I know it's stupid: the last time I had the car in to him, he did a compression check and an oil change, checked all the fluids, belts, and hoses for me... and my bill came to just under $43.00.

So... give it to me straight!!! Alignments: expensive? Tell it!!!

[Zuffen]

45 to 55 for a front end up to 90 for a four wheel. I would have replaced both tie rods before doing an alignment.

_________________
Bob Dodd - 924turbo@cox.net
931 1982, 944 1982 euro, 924S 1988SE, 93 968 tip 06 Silver Cayenne S, 06 Black Cayenne S

I have Way too many cars, parts for the 931,944 and 951

[Richard]

I'm surprised you did not get a price for an alignment up front. Usually they are flat-rated. My local Tire and muffler shop will do the front and rear wheels for around $65.00. A specialty shop may go higher. I've read on this board where some have spent alot more, but I don't understand why. Any shop with good equipment and the correct dimensions should be able to do it easily. The front end is the same as several other VW models and so is the rear. I've sensed from others that there is a mystique to aligning the Porsches, but a car is a car.

Without going into too much detail, an alignment simply locks the wheels into a position that allows the car to steer, brake, handle and prevent undue tire wear. The four wheels on a car are not perpendicular to the road, nor are the front wheels parallel to each other. Racers often mess around with these settings to optimize the car for a specific track or set of conditions. Your mechanic has, or can easily get the factory specs. for you car.

An alignment is needed any time work is done on the parts (such as a tie-rod) that control the steering. The tools that a mechanic uses can be simple devices all the way to expensive racks that give a computer printout of the final values. The key to a good job is experience and not rushing.

[cathy]

Okay, thank you. Then it sounds like an alignment is necessary when replacing a tierod.

Next question: factory specs? Would they be in the Haynes manual? I always give that to my mechanic when he's working on my car (he is not a specialty shop... but he does great work and worked on my car when it still belonged to its previous owner).

And I have a question for anyone out there who has bought Dunlops... did they wear out on the rear in less than two years for you? Mine did... and I put less than 15K on them in that period of time. Any suggestions as to brands?

[Smoothie]

The rear can be out of alignment too. That can be causing the rear tires to wear fast.

[924RACR]

Yes, if the rear alignment is out of whack it can wear the rear tires prematurely - should be evident due to uneven wear. The car should pretty much be aligned at all 4 corners anyway, as settings can get out of whack after 20-odd years on the road!

The rear is a real PITA to get set up properly, takes a bit of time, but is worth it in the results. There is a $18 tool that will help immensely in setting the rear toe and camber, hopefully your mechanic has this tool.

Sounds like your mechanic is taking good care of you...

_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[numbers]

Yes you need the alignment after replacing a tie rod. The question is why only one tie rod. Just like tires or shocks, tir rods should be replaced in pairs. As to your rear tires wareing quicker than the fronts. That is normal. I have put three sets of tires on the rear of my 931 since I bought it, but only one set on the front, and I only replaces the fronts because they were cracking. The fronts seem to go for ever. By the way, those three sets were over 32 thousand mile period, from the first to the third, so 15K seems to be about right for the rears if you are running a performance tire. I don't have specific experience with dunlops, I have always run Pirelli's.

[cathy]

Tierods should always be replaced in pairs? Okay, I didn't know that. My mechanic told me the one tierod was bad, but said the other one was fine and was only a few years old. ?????? Should I be concerned? He did a complete alignment on the car and charged me $44.00. He also put on my new tires (Coopers), balanced them, rotated all four, and put on new stems. I drove my car home (about twenty miles)and it's fine. I don't have the weird vibration in my steering wheel anymore (above sixty mph). It handles really nicely.

[Rick MacLaren]

Sounds fine to me. Good price too.

[Peter]

Cathy, compared to prices here, it seems as if he under charges you
It appears that you have a very good relationship with your mechanic based on mutual respect. Don't be afraid to ask a million and one questions, I am sure he will appreciate the interest you take in your car and the work he performs.
-Peter

[924RACR]

Yes that sounds excellent. Sounds like you're the one who got to replace the second tire rod end that should have made the pair.

Feel free to share the name/location of your mechanic here, sounds like a very nice and professional guy, I'd imagine there's a pretty good chance others here might like to use him if they're in the area.

Back to the original subject, I've added a bit on the subject of alignments to the Tech Section. Still not complete, but it's a start. Includes the pic of the tool for the rear toe adjustment.
http://www.924.org/techsection/10suspension.htm#2 - Alignments

Next I'll have to actually get into the description of the detailed adjustments.

_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[924RACR]

Yes that sounds excellent. Sounds like you're the one who got to replace the second tire rod end that should have made the pair.

Feel free to share the name/location of your mechanic here, sounds like a very nice and professional guy, I'd imagine there's a pretty good chance others here might like to use him if they're in the area.

Back to the original subject, I've added a bit on the subject of alignments to the Tech Section. Still not complete, but it's a start. Includes the pic of the tool for the rear toe adjustment.
http://www.924.org/techsection/10suspension.htm#2 - Alignments

Next I'll have to actually get into the description of the detailed adjustments.

_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

[cathy]

My mechanic is a big car fanatic. He owns and is restoring some Corvettes (he has a 78 with a hatch similar to the 924's). He always has a completely full parking area and I have to call at least a week in advance to get an appointment. He runs his shop with his father, his brother-in-law (who does nothing but cooling systems and radiators), and a younger mechanic who is very talented. He always lets me bring parts in to him, never makes a fuss about it, and always parks my car inside overnight. I think his labor averages out to about twenty an hour. He always uses my Haynes manual when he works on the car. The only time he hasn't worked on my car is when it needed a new clutch... he then referred me to a transmission place that did a great job (although it took them two weeks to get a clutch kit for it).

His shop is on the "Car Talk" site (or it used to be)as being a good reputable garage.
Allen's Garage in New Milford, PA. If you ever are in this neck of the woods and need help, they are the guys to see:).

And yes, I feel lucky. I have only had one other mechanic in my entire life who was as honest and skilled... a VW mechanic named Todd who had a shop on Hayden in Scottsdale, AZ. He even made housecalls.

I know lots of guys here do all of their own work, but I think if you know a good mechanic, you should give him lots of word-of-mouth. My husband is a master carpenter, and is always very serious about making sure his customers are happy. He says, if someone is unhappy with your work, they'll tell thirty people. If they're happy, they'll tell ten. But it's those ten who might be calling you to get an estimate!

[numbers]

Cathy, seems like your mechanic did exactly what was required, and the price was more than fair. Your mechanic, and the one that 8tr just had so much heartburn with, represent the two extremes on the "professional mechanic" spectrum. Make sure you tell him that you appreciate his work.

[924RACR]

Your mechanic will also no doubt be happy to hear that he has the approval of the whole 924.org forum community as well...

_________________
Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype