924Board.org

PORSCHEV · Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:42 am Post subject:

Well fill us in ..I was thinking gohim was sounding pretty smart....

_________________
1976 924
5 lug conversion, 17'C2 wheels,custom body work,327 vette engine.

1978-#53 "D" track racer.

Min · Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:49 am Post subject:

Peter_in_AU · Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 2743 Location: Sydney, Australia

Min · Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:06 am Post subject:

Btw sparky, you should report that he's resold your item on ebay again. That should trigger a deeper investigation into his activities.

One thing I'd like to note, is don't use paypal linked to a bank account for more than like small purchases, any large purchase (such as sparky's) should be done with CC. Which is pretty much the main point of gohims post I believe.

Min
_________________
Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.

OutOfTheBox · Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 434

gohim is correct, check here

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

I also only use a CC to pay paypal, and never keep any funds in paypal.

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

Min,

Do you buy and sell on eBay, and use/accept PayPal?

I have been an eBay Member for over 8 years now, and I see new scams being developed daily. I have completed over 3,000 eBay Transactions, and I have the documentation to prove it, even thoughmy FeedBack History only reflects around 1300+ transaction reports.

At one point I was conducting (selling) over 100 auctions a week.

I don't accept PayPal, and I routinely return PayPal Payment to people who insist on sending payment to me by PayPal when my eBay ads specifically state that PayPal is not accepted.

It's interesting to see that you state that I am wrong about how eBay and PayPal work, but you give information about how you think it works, or know that it works, or what qualifications you have to be able to say that I am wrong. You also leave no information about your experience buying and selling on eBay, or or using PayPal.

Did you look at the PayPal snapshots? Did you see where the people who supposedly got all of there money back did not get all of the money back? It's right there... Name of Victim, amount paid to NE Auto by victim, minus an amount (PAYPAL SERVICE CHARGE/RETURN FUNDS FEE), and the amount refunded/returned. What you don't see listed are the INDIVIDUAL FEES charged to NE Auto for taking the money from their account and returning it to the Victims.

"> I apply for a refund and only get $361 back."
BS! You received a full refund, and so did the other buyers. Included are their email addresses in case anyone here wants to check with them. I insist that eveyone does!
.........Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 17:02:22 -0500
To: "d m" <neautoinc@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re Re Re Re Second Request for Information About Buyer Refunds
From: "kanadom1" <kanadom1@paypal.com> Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by paypal.com. Learn more
Dear David Mandache,
Thank you for contacting PayPal. In regards to your previous email, the following actions have been resolved for you: ID # 2UJ785567W211801P to Peter J Rice at peter@consolite.co.uk ($275.00)- Full refund ID # 21D760531S992064A to Chris Carmody at ccarmody@redxsystems.com ($1000.00) - Full refund ID # 2JL07986UH0920141 to Jansen Lee at roadrunner951@adelphia.net ($2585.00) - Full refund ID # 0GV35556744356015 to Andre Arends at aarends@emalta.com ($620.00) - Full refund
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again. Sincerely, Sarah Protection Services Department PayPal, an eBay Company
Even more proof:
Date Type To/From Name/Email Status Details Action Gross Fee Net Amount
Sep. 30, 2006 Payment From Peter J Rice Reversed Details $275.00 USD -$11.03 USD $263.97 USD
Sep. 29, 2006 Payment From Jansen Lee Reversed Details $2,585.00 USD -$75.27 USD $2,509.73 USD
Sep. 29, 2006 Payment From Chris Carmody Reversed Details $1,000.00 USD -$29.30 USD $970.70 USD
Sep. 29, 2006 Payment From Andre Arends Reversed Details $620.00 USD -$24.48 USD $595.52 USD

DO YOU SEE THE PART THAT SAYS "Gross Fee Net" ? Just what do you thing happened there?

These payments were handled as Refunds, not Chargebacks so there wasn't any ChargeBack Fee stuck on NE Auto, just the PayPal 4% money Handling Fee. And obviously there wasn't enough money in NE Auto's PayPal Account for Sparky to get the $595.52. Unfortunately PayPal Fees, or previous ChargeBacks and Refunds or cash transfers ate up the money. The only way that Sparky will get the rest of his money back through PayPal, is if some other unfortunate PayPals NE Auto some money. At that point, PayPal will take the money, pay Sparky some more money towards the balance owed, take more for Service Fees, and the guy who sent the money to NE Auto is now the one waiting to get his back his money (minus 4%).

THAT IS HOW A PYRAMID SCHEME WORKS, ISN'T IT (first guy in gets his money back first, and the last guy in is left holding the bag)?

Just what do you think that I have wrong? Are you saying that PayPal does not COLLECT A FEE to the Seller, when a Buyer causes a credit card chargeback? Are you saying that PayPal does not COLLECT A FEE from the money recovered for a Buyer when the Buyer files a Claim with PayPal? Are you saying that PayPal does not COLLECT A FEE from Sellers (percentage of the money collected on upgraded Seller Accounts)? How about the fact that PayPal COLLECTS ANOTHER FEE from Sellers if they want more that one cash disbursement a month, or $200 a month, unless you have an upgraded account (with more fees), and even then there is a limit to how much you can take out without paying additional fees.

Did you know that PayPal holds the Seller financially responsible for everything that happens to his/her account. Supposedly PayPal has investigated each of it's members, and has verified that they are legally entitled to make transfers to PayPal from the accounts that they request to be linked. So, since the Seller/Receiver is paying PayPal a service charge to collect the funds, I would hold PayPal responsible for verifying that the funds transfers to the Sellers account are legitimate. After all, the Seller is paying a precentage of the money collecting in his name for the service. that is not what happens. If a check or credit card or bank transfer turns out to be fraudulent, PayPal removes the funds from the Seller/Receiver's Account, and charges the Seller a Fee for taking the funds back from the Seller. Without his/her knowledge or prior approval.
Just how fair is that? This is a major reason that I do not accept PayPal.

All of these PayPal Rules/Policies are clearly stated in the PayPal TOS. You can go to the PayPal Website and verify or disprove the statements that I have written here. I may not have stated exact numbers correctly, but the rules and how they are applied is very clear.

Have you ever paid by PayPal from a bank account, and been stiffed by the Seller? Did you try to post a dispute on eBay? Did you go back to PayPal and post a dispute? Did you try to use eBay Buyer Protection, or try to get your money back from PayPal? Have you tracked the Sellers you ripped you off after your transactions to see what if anything eBay or PayPal did to those Sellers?

I have. I follow up with eBay and PayPal on every transaction that I get ripped off on. I have documented the replies from eBay and PayPal as well, because I know that when there is a problem, eBay and PayPal are worthless as resources to try to recover your money. Credit Card Chargebacks for the most part were the only way that I have been able to recover money.

Two years ago, PayPal did recover $12 from the $30 that I paid a clown for camera I bought, that the Seller stripped before he shipped it to me. I found out that the Seller was buying broken used cameras on eBay, and flipping them, back onto eBay claiming that he had had them for years, and they worked perfectly. I even found the ad for the camera that I bought with the same photo that the Seller used when I bought it from him, and that was the ad that he bought the camera on. I took the time to document several cases where the Seller that I bought the camera from did the same thing to other people with broken cameras. I sent the information to both eBay and PayPal, and neither one did anything to stop this Seller from ripping off other Buyers. PayPal did not stop accepting money for this Seller, even though I showed them exactly how he was ripping people off. PayPal was doing the same accept money for the Seller, and repay Previous Buyers routine that they did to Sparky, and NE Auto. After I returned this camera, the Seller resold the same camera with the same ad that he sold the camera to me with. He did not mention that the camera had been returned, or that it didn;t work, or that he had only owned it for 4 days (and had not even seen it when he placed his ad to sell it to me). I notified both eBay, and PayPal the day that the ad was placed, but eBay did nothing to end the auction early to stop this Seller's Scam.

The Scammer Sellers, eBay and PayPal also often protest Credit Card Chargebacks. Having documentation is the only way that you will prevail with your credit card when you instigate a credit card chargeback.

AND YES, if you must pay by PayPal, the safest way is to use funds from a Credit Card. I prefer to use USPS Money Orders with Sellers that I trust. But I have no problem sending money by PayPal from a bank account to a Seller that I trust, and have not lost any money that way yet. I have sucessfully recovered funds by Credit Card ChargeBack paid to Sellers through PayPal close to a year after I got ripped-off after going through all the channels (PayPal, eBay, Buyer Protection, Law Enforcement, and finally credit card company). I have heard of some cases where the money was taken back from a Seller's account close to two years after the incidents occured.

Joes924Racer · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:46 am Post subject:

Gee I feel bad a little.. not as bad a Dave

though.. he hates pay-pal .. lol Of course I feel for sparky too

& offer this maybe someday you'll get the balance.. I think
you should pursue all avenues go-him has stated to get it back
a soon as possible. Hey Dave sorry for being so harsh I
was ready to rip him a new @ss I guess.
_________________
1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.

Min · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:28 am Post subject:

There is no way I'm getting into a internet flamewar with you gohim, but lets put it this way, the town I live in also has a ebay call centre in it, at this call centre, employee's get to learn how things -actually- work, rather than the way the customer percieves that things work, which in most cases is quite a bit different from each other. I'm in a position to say that you don't have all the information, I was not however claiming that the information you do have is incorrect(although heavily opinionated, and therefore extremely biased) Woopie do, you've used ebay/paypal, that doesn't mean you actually know and understand internal policy regarding this sort of thing.

I've nothing further to ad, and I'm certainly not going to assist you with taking this thread even -further- off-topic. Especially since there are nondisclosure agremeents and all that kind of fun legalities in saying even as much as I have. All you need to do gohim is for once assume perhaps you don't have all the facts. But as you've proven here numerous times. Your always right, even when your not.

Min
_________________
Custom means it didn't come from a box.
1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.

Joes924Racer · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:07 am Post subject:

So Dave still squirms when he knows what hes done or hes too thick headed and blots it out gouing for the E-bay did it option.

_________________
1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.

Stu2j · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:40 am Post subject:

>>>Have you ever paid by PayPal from a bank account, and been stiffed by the Seller?

Yep ... got screwed

>>>Did you try to post a dispute on eBay?

Yep .. still screwed

>>>Did you go back to PayPal and post a dispute?

Yep .. still screwed

>>>Did you try to use eBay Buyer Protection

Yep .. still screwed

The point of the story is .. use a credit card or you're screwed.
_________________
-Stu
924 owner since 1988
924S owner since 2002
Click here to view them:

D Hook · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 3158 Location: Omaha, NE

Joes924Racer · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:54 pm Post subject:

I* hear ya.
_________________
1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo.

gohim · Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 4459 Location: Rialto, CA

Min,

What I wrote was not just opinion or conjecture, it is based on over eight years of experience dealing with eBay and PayPal.

Since I have a computer business and deal with eBay on a regular basis, I am speaking from experience, not off the top of my head or hiding behind some strange BS None-Disclosure Agreement that you aren't even a party to. Or are you (a PayPal employee)? I find it very interesting that people who are supposed to be employees of a supposedly legal and above board business would have to conceal their employment status.

I haven't read a single word about your experiences as a eBay or PayPal Member that would qualify you to be able to speak in authority about the way that PayPal and eBay really work. And actual experience outside of your employment would not be covered by a Non-Disclosure Agreement, even if you were an employee.

So, let's hear your words of wisdom and experience, about how great eBay and PayPal are, and the wonderful way that they have treated you when you got involved in a bad transaction.

You have done hundreds of transactions so you can speak from experience haven't you?

If not, why are you yapping?

924aussie · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:01 pm Post subject:

I am still waiting after 7 weeks for a couple of Interior Door panels from a 924 Ebay seller in the UK .

Maybe I will just send him this link ......

Alan
_________________
green 924 .. 1980 rego 924PSH
1998 Mopar Neon ... sick
2003 Challenger / Montery 4WD
1995 Hyundai Scoupe ... sold
1998 Nissan Silvia ... sons back from OS he has taken it
BIG BLOODY MOTORHOME 300zx Sold
1980 Fire truck Sold