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augidog

Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 1360 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:52 am Post subject: air/fuel ratio for the NA |
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I awaiting my air/fuel gauge for installation.
I'm just gathering some info for the na so I can use it to its full potential.
Sounds like fun.
| Quote: | What is the air/fuel ratio and lambda ?
For petrol engines the air/fuel ratio is very important. It is the quantity of air aspirated by the engine against the quantity of fuel aspirated (carburettor) or injected (injection).
Lambda is a unit less number that gives you an indication of the air/fuel ratio. A lambda sensor measure the quantity of oxygen in the exhaust. A complete combustion didn't left oxygen at all. In that way the sensor can tell to us or to the engine management system that the engine runs rich or poor an let allow the ECU to make corrections if necessary.
The normal lambda sensor has a hysteretic characteristic between 0,9 and 1,1. Now we have also wideband lambda sensors which have a linear characteristic between lambda 0,7 to 1,2. This is the ideal sensor for tuning.
* The ideal air/fuel ratio for minimum consumption is nearly 15,4 kg of air against 1 kg of fuel (lambda 1,05)
* The ideal air/fuel ratio for maximum power is 13,2 kg of air against 1kg of fuel (lambda 0,9)
* The car manufactures admitted the norm of lambda 1 as 14,7 kg air against 1 kg of fuel. This is between minimum economy and maximum power
So if we search maximum power we have to see that the lambda is 0,9 at that point for an atmospheric engine. A turbo- or a supercharged engine has to run richer (at lambda 0,82) only for safety reasons, because the higher pressure and the higher exhaust temperature can destroy the engine. By making the mixture richer we cool the temperature in the combustion room and the exhaust to protect the engine.
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13.2 wot and 15.4 idle is what I'm going to be looking for on the meter.
I'm wondering if this is possible with just the fuel mix or will I be getting into bigger injectors,larger throttle body,better performance air filter,etc?
I can't wait to tweak. _________________ 1978 924 95 mile daily driver.
Audi TB/POR174M/High Flow Cat/2.25" exhaust
I knew that positive thinking thing wouldn't work. |
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MunkPuppy

Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 419 Location: New Westminster, B.C., Canada
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:51 am Post subject: |
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are you using a wide-band O2 sensor or a narrowband O2? With narrowband, you're only going to be able to tell ifyou're rich or lean, no in-between readings, unfortunately  _________________ '80 931 FOR SALE
"It's a shame that stupidity isn't painful"
-Anton Szandor LaVey |
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augidog

Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 1360 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| MunkPuppy wrote: | are you using a wide-band O2 sensor or a narrowband O2? With narrowband, you're only going to be able to tell ifyou're rich or lean, no in-between readings, unfortunately  |
before my blazer went down I put in a new o2 sensor thinking that was the problem.I just pulled it from the yard where it was sitting. Its a wide band heated bosche  _________________ 1978 924 95 mile daily driver.
Audi TB/POR174M/High Flow Cat/2.25" exhaust
I knew that positive thinking thing wouldn't work. |
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Raceboy

Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2327 Location: Estonia, Europe
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:16 am Post subject: |
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Does it have 5 wires? In that case you'll need special box that controls the heating if it and displays numbers. You can do it yourself, but it's not an easy task (couple of printed circuit boards + parts + soldering) _________________ '83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S, sold
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche |
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endwrench

Joined: 07 Dec 2002 Posts: 1631 Location: Victor, Montana
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:51 am Post subject: |
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No GM product has ever come with a wide band O2.
Todd |
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augidog

Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 1360 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| endwrench wrote: | No GM product has ever come with a wide band O2.
Todd |
Yea, he is right it’s just a heated sensor. I did a quick test with it in the muffler to check the gauge. It worked fine. But I was running really rich. I turned back at least 3/4 to idle at 14.9. This morning I ran it to work. What a difference!!!!! Even though it was not a wide band O2 it really helped with the overall performance especially on hills.
I can't wait to get it installed. As far as a tuning tool it is one of the best investments I made. Anyone running a early NA without a O2 sensor will definitely benefit from the info it gives. That 3/4 turns made no difference in rpm or vacuum but on the road it was proven results. _________________ 1978 924 95 mile daily driver.
Audi TB/POR174M/High Flow Cat/2.25" exhaust
I knew that positive thinking thing wouldn't work. |
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J1NX3D

Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 1333 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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sounds awesome!!
im getting one of these guages:
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Autoguage air fuel gauges are of a very high standard and half the price of competing similar products a big bonus
Product Specifications : Part Number: AFRLED-20W
1 x Air Gauge
1 x Fitting instructions
Optional Mounting cup chrome or black can be purchased for $10.00 with the gauge unit .
Requirements :
The gauge must be wired to your factory oxygen ( O2 sensor) or an after market one. Instructions state it can be wired to the following :
1 Wire Sensor (Non Heated)
2 Wire Sensor (Non Heated)
3 Wire Sensors (Heated)
4 Wire Sensors ( Heated).
Gauge Readings:
The gauge has 20 LED to read between 50 mv up to 1.000 Mv. Range indication is as follows:
Lean ( 4 LEDs) .050 to .249 mv
Optimal ( 10 LEDs) .250 to .749 mv
Rich (6 LED) .750 to 1.000 mv |
what sensor would you guys recommend?
and would i need something like this?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Performance/Electronics/auction-32339612.htm _________________ '86 944 |
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jpab924
Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 1538 Location: Crown pt. IN. 50 miles southeast of Chicago Ill.
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Smoothie

Joined: 01 Jan 2003 Posts: 8032 Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:22 am Post subject: |
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Unless there's an oddball sensor out there somewhere that I don't know about, any narrow band o2 sensor will work with any narrow band air:fuel gauge. They're all the same as far as chemical reaction and electrical output.
I have the one Bosch o2 sensor in its' OE position and wire to the OE connector and wire below-behind the crossmember that then runs on up to the Lambda box under the dash. I tapped a second single-conductor wire in between the crossmember connector and o2 sensor (so it can be unplugged from the Lambda box, but remain connected to the gauge for testing). Some say you should have a second o2 sensor for the gauge, but I'm using just one with no apparent dysfunction (car runs fine and the gauge reads just as it should under different conditions - idle, part throttle, WOT, etc.).
If you're fussy, you could use a shielded wire from sensor to gauge like Porsche used from sensor to Lambda box. _________________ "..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."
'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox |
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jpab924
Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 1538 Location: Crown pt. IN. 50 miles southeast of Chicago Ill.
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Ok Smoothie, just wanted to be sure the Porsche 02 wasn`t one of those "oddball" sensors.
I have the 02 sensor unplugged from the system now. Engine runs a whole lot better without it.
I was going to just tee off somewhere in the cabin of the car close to the lambda box. |
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Smoothie

Joined: 01 Jan 2003 Posts: 8032 Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Well it might actually be easier to T-in where I described because there's a short length of single-conductor wire there that's easy to tap in to. The rest of the wire from cross-member connector to lambda box is a coaxial shielded wire. _________________ "..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."
'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox |
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jpab924
Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 1538 Location: Crown pt. IN. 50 miles southeast of Chicago Ill.
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Ok I gotcha now.
I`ll prod and poke when I`m ready....but your advice is solid.  |
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augidog

Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 1360 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:05 am Post subject: |
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$19.00 O2 SENSOR
My used one stopped sending voltage,it was all blackened from the my Chevy Blazer it came from with a leaking fuel spider.
I would not get a heated again.
The wires already melted together and shorted out causing a toaster effect on the highway,also frying my voltage regulator and toasting the chip in the gauge.
With everything now replaced I'm looking forward to tuning again. It was amazing the immediate response felt in the engine to tuning to the sensor's read out. I was running very rich and the adjustment in the mix can be as little as an 1/8th turn on the allen.
https://www.automedicsupply.com/catalog4.php?# _________________ 1978 924 95 mile daily driver.
Audi TB/POR174M/High Flow Cat/2.25" exhaust
I knew that positive thinking thing wouldn't work. |
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ryoji
Joined: 10 Oct 2003 Posts: 168 Location: NNJ
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:48 am Post subject: |
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I used this for the race car. It shows ratio instead of pre-programmed arb. light.
If you want to buy : http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=598
However, I thought CIS keeps the ratio pretty much the same for all range of usable RPM, as well as the degree of the pedal you press. _________________ R.I.P.:a 924 ITA race car |
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augidog

Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 1360 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| ryoji wrote: |
However, I thought CIS keeps the ratio pretty much the same for all range of usable RPM, as well as the degree of the pedal you press. |
Yes I've heard this also. but the air/ fuel mix still seems to vary.
I've read that the best tuning area for air/fuel should be at 3800 rpm -probally at cruise. I can't wait to get it testing again. _________________ 1978 924 95 mile daily driver.
Audi TB/POR174M/High Flow Cat/2.25" exhaust
I knew that positive thinking thing wouldn't work. |
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