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[-nick]

I don't understand it, but Bush reflects popular opinion. No doubt about it. "Morals" are what many said helped them decide on their vote. I don't exactly think that avoiding an abortion if it will save a mother's life is a sound moral choice, but apparently I'm in the minority on that one (we're going to have to change our rules for commercial flights now too- no more afix the oxygen mask to yourself first, then your child...).

While we're on the topic, aren't republicans against having the government invade into our lives? I guess that doesn't count if you're gay? So, if the government only invades upon someone else's life, it's ok?

Majorities aren't always a good thing. The majority thought that enslaving Africans was ok in this country for a hundred years. The majority didn't want to give women or blacks the right to vote in this county for about 150 years. Now the majority wants to place gay citizens as second class. Why do we even teach history in this country?

Enjoy the victory.

nick

[Stu2j]

>>>Now the majority wants to place gay citizens as second class.

This is the exact problem with the Democratic Party.

Nobody cares if you are gay, if you want to worship the Sun, or if you want to defend your property with the garden hose.

It is when you try and take the guns, take the prayer, take the traditional meaning of marriage and family, and finally actually take life through partial birth abortion or stem cell research, that government begins to intrude on the most basic of rights of a free people. Why can't you see that in trying to give rights to the few, you may be intruding on the rights of the many.

In trying to be "tolerant" of every single position (political correctness), no matter how ludicrous, we are plunging ourselves into an abyss of absurdity.
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[Stu2j]

>>>Why do we even teach history in this country?

Interesing comment.

While it isn't taught in schools because it isn't allowed, history has shown us that no Godless society has ever survived.
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[Khal]

OK, I've just gotta weigh in here, by way of explanation, not personal attack...

Firstly, Stu2j, while I'm sure you're a perfectly fine person (and I feel I am, too), what you do here as a Republican Party spokesperson is exactly what disturbs a fair portion of your own country's population -and certainly a goodly portion of the world's population -about President Bush and his Government. You tell everyone that your half is right and everyone else is wrong.

I'm sure it doesn't worry you because you're one of the one's who's "right". But it worries others. Citizens of small countries like Australia are concerned because you have the means to enforce your Government's will on us, and you've proven you're willing to do it. With or without the consent of the rest of the world.

You might think I'm joking. But I'm not. There's genuine concern.

[924guy]

hmmm, so i guess people arent allowed to decide for themselves anymore what is "right" , we must all be told , and conform to what the republican party decides is "right"???

get off the high horse, this is AMERICA.. I Decide what is right for me...

what does it matter if gays want to marry each other, their not doing it in your house...are you so homophobic that even the thought of them using the term marriage will destroy YOUR moral terpitude?? Are you that weak minded that it scares you so much? Why dont you call for outlawing Divorce of heterosexual couples while your at it, isnt that just a big a sin as homosexuality in most Christian based religions? hell, why not get the old Crusades cranked up again, lets convert the world!!

Prayer- NO Ones trying to take prayer away, thats ludicrous..The separation of church and state is a measure to protect all of our citizens, (consisting of a multitude of religious beliefs if youve forgotten) from being unfairly subjected to pratices in which they do not participate. You can pray all you want, but dont make my kids say your prayer if i have a different belief system..You want your kids to learn your religion and values, you have the option of sending them to the school of your choice, perhaps one that suports your belief system.. But my taxes should not be spent on public schooling that encourages YOUR beliefs.. prayer does not belong in a public school...unless it is conducted in private and does not force belief systems on students of other faiths...

As far as stem cell research and abortion goes.. im not even going to get into it..l
Im against gun control..id have a tank in my driveway if i could..i might need to use to defend my rights as American citizen from right wing zealots trying to convert me....

You contradict yourself STU, you seem to be preaching about the moral majority, yet you advocate intolarance.. there is nothing moral about intolarance......
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[D Hook]

Funny Eric, I kinda' feel the same way about the Democratic party. They too preach tolerance but evertime religion is a subject, there's no tolerance for people who believe that some higher power, be it God, Allah or whomever, is an important part of how we run our lives. And the intolerance doesn't come from people of other religions who are offended if the word "God" is in the pledge of allegience, they seem to be offeneded if a reference is made to anyone other than our own mortal selves when it comes to some things. That's the part I don't understand. And it's usually just one person out of tens or even hundreds of thousands who objects to this reference. Everyone is equally protected under the law. But I still can't yell fire in a crowded theater.

America was created to be the home of the free, not the home of beige. I for one relish the diversity that's created here by the influx of so many cultures. It's only when someone else says MY beliefs are to be removed in favor of NO beliefs that gets me mad. And a few days ago, what you may have seen was a whole lot of people who are tired of others telling them they cannot believe, worship, respect, sanctify their own culture because a history revisionist has decided that's no longer a respectible culture. When the revisionists get to the other cultures, I'll be voting the same way, against that type of beige "do nothing lest we offend" type of government.

[924guy]

D hook, i think we agree on the same basic principals..i never said im an advocate of the dems, im simply an opponent of the fascist right.. I didnt support Bush because he lied to us.. now all politicans lie, its part of their nature..but it wasnt done to protect national interests, or for the good of the country , or even to save his own skin , it was done to benefit a few very powerfull people and their organizations, to further their power base and financial gain..and that distgusts me.. I didnt support him because hes had four years to prove his worth, and he hasnt, the most powerful position in the world is not a position where a "do over" should be allowed imho... If a president leaves a country in a worse position than when he started, he needs to go.. It scares me that better than 50% of our voting populace thinks the past four years have been okay.... were our own worst enemy. If your investment broker took your life savings.empowered by you to make the decisions on how to make it grow, then came back and told not only that they lost your money, but you now owe three times as much (a culmative loss of four times what you started with) wouldnt you be pissed? youd fire him and find out where your money went... and find another to make it back for you... wouldnt you? i would... we just told the world we think its okay to be scammed imho...

Ill even agree that Stu is spot on in saying the dems have lost touch, thats a given.. and maybe the recent results will force a correction, or better yet, allow a true third political party to rise, hopefully one that supports our constiutional rights , and respects everyones beliefs, rather than try to change them...it may be a longshot, but i do believe it is possible to govern a country such as the United States of America without shoving the popular belief system down everyones throats..if we force singular religious ideals on our citizens , as has been suggested by a few here, were no better than a dictatorship and we might as well toss the constitution in the trash....

Ive simply spoken to the lack of balance, and the disasterous effects it can have in a "democracy." Im not telling anyone what to think, im just bringing up my perception of the situation..i may be wrong, i hope i am..
but im not going to just run happily along and pretned everthing is, or will be Ducky... weve got a long road ahead...
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Eric
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[Stu2j]

>>>what does it matter if gays want to marry each other, their not doing it in your house...are you so homophobic that even the thought of them using the term marriage will destroy YOUR moral terpitude??

Here we go. We can't have this discussion without tossing in that I must be a homophobe, a bigot, a racist, etc. right? I can assure you that I am none of the above.

Try and take the next logical step with me if you can. Why can't couples marry? Why can't a man marry his dog? If the word "marriage" doesn't have any specific meaning, where does it stop? Am I a beastiphobe if I think a person shouldn't be able to "marry" their pet?

>>>The separation of church and state is a measure to protect all of our citizens,

Please point to this phrase in the Constitution. I'll save you some time as no such phrase exists. It is a fiction. It is a court created concept. What the Constitution DOES say is: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

I would suggest that not allowing prayer in public schools is a direct violation of what the Constitution actually says. It is "prohibiting the free exercise" of religion. This is exactly the problem. People believe what the liberals have said rather that what the Constitution itself actually says.

>>>But my taxes should not be spent on public schooling that encourages YOUR beliefs..

Oh, but it should encourage yours right? Why is it ok for a public school to teach children about "alternative families", "alternative lifestyles", "Quanza", etc which are minority views? Why should the "theory" of evolution be taught but not the "theory" of creation?

You are travelling down a tough road bud. It seems that you are the one that isn't really tolerant of ALL views.

>>>You contradict yourself STU, you seem to be preaching about the moral majority, yet you advocate intolarance.. there is nothing moral about intolarance......

Like most liberals and/or Democrats, you have it wrong. The Republican Party is the party of tolerance. It is the Democratic Party that takes a hostile view (as shown in this message) of anyone who disagrees with them.
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-Stu
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[Stu2j]

>>>If a president leaves a country in a worse position than when he started, he needs to go..

<shaking head>

I actually saw an interview where a person claimed that it was President Bush's environmental policies that caused the hurricanes and the damage in Florida.

Given all that has happened while President Bush was in office (almost none of it being his fault) it is a miracle that the country is doing so well.
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-Stu
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[924guy]

As i said above, i do not support forced belief systems, and that includes my beliefs. I never said i was "right", nor did i say my interpretations should be forced upon others..thats the beauty of the USA, we all are allowed an opinion(for now anyhow). ive stated mine, agree, disagree, it really doesnt matter.

"The powers in charge keep us in a perpetual state of fear keep us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor with the cry of grave national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it by furnishing the exorbitant sums demanded. Yet, in retrospect, these disasters seem never to have happened, seem never to have been quite real." -Douglas MacArthur


. Well talk on this again in two years...
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Eric
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99' VehiCross
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[Stu2j]

>>>Yet, in retrospect, these disasters seem never to have happened

As hard as it may be to grasp, 9/11 really happened.

>>>Well talk on this again in two years...

If the Democratic Party doesn't "find itself", there won't be much left to talk about.

Have a good one and as always please keep our fine young men and women serving overseas in your thoughts and prayers.
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-Stu
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[Eturbo924]

Wow it is weird how people take certain things you say and spin them out of control.

Where did I say... sit down and shut up... we won you lost?

What I said was that the Republicans won in a land slide. The American people came out in opposition to the crap that the Democrat party put out there as their main agenda.

Kerry kept on saying he has a plan he has a plan... yet he had nothing.

The marriage issue. I agree with another post her.. sorry forgot the name. But marriage is between one man and one woman. Just because it does not fit everyones view does not mean we need to change our fundamental beliefs to fit them. They claim all they wanted was to get all the same rights... so when it looked like they would get them in Massachusetts they then pushed to get the word marriage also. They are not only looking for the "same rights" they are looking for acceptance.

Again what that would then mean is that the men and or women who want to marry say 4 of the other sex should be able to do so. Who are you are I to say they can not. Some of them would be discriminated against if their choice for a mate were hurt. Or hell I love my penguin and want to marry it. Can you not see how it would degenerate?

Anyway I have gone on longer then most have likely kept reading anyway so I will stop.

Repulicans have the mandate now from their land slide victory and things are going to change around here. Stop all the homo fear monger racist talk.
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[Eturbo924]

Oh and Nick... heck I think you are a great guy but... hu?

How can you support partial birth abortion? There are extreemly rare cases that ever endanger the womans life anymore. Also when a baby becomes large enough that you can pull it by its feel into the birth canal and suck its brains out.... it should be protected by law. Who are you to say that the life inside her is any less valuable than hers?

Do you have any idea what this procedure envolves?
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/index.html

What America saw in Bush is multiple different things... but I would say that he is a man of his convictions. He says what he thinks and does what he says. Let the chips then fall. He stands by his decisions and lets his moral center decide where he leads. Kerry sticks his finger in the wind to decide where he would lead.
www.kerryoniraq.com

Anyway it is mute point. Kerry lost Bush won.

I would love to quote a local host about to go national. This is just a quote I am not this harsh to the losers.

"Attension Liberals, Attension Liberls, The nightmare is real, We won, you lost... Bahahahahahahahahahahah" Jay Severon on 96.9 FM talk.

He is good Nick you should listen to him to see what many Americans were thinking.[/url]
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[Eturbo924]

a little humor to lighten it up.

The History of Social Evolution
Submitted by Jeff Wick
The division of the human family into its two distinct political branches occurred some 10,000 years ago, when humans coexisted as members of small bands of nomadic hunter/gatherers.

The pivotal event of societal evolution was the invention of beer.

This epochal event was both the foundation of modern civilization and the occasion of the bifurcation of humanity into its two distinct subgroups: Liberals and Conservatives.

Once beer was discovered, it required grain, and that was the beginning of agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented yet, so it was necessary to stick close to the brewery. That's how villages were formed.

Some men spent their days killing animals to barbecue at night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of the conservative movement.

Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting, learned to live off the conservatives by showing up for the nightly barbecues and doing the sewing, fetching and hair dressing. This was the beginning of the liberal movement. An interesting evolutionary side note: some of these early Liberal men eventually evolved into women.

Liberal achievements include the domestication of cats, the trade union, the invention of group therapy and group hugs, and the concept of democratic voting to decide how to divide the meat and beer that the conservatives provided.

Over the years, conservatives became to be symbolized by the largest, most powerful land animal on earth.

Liberals are symbolized by the jackass.

Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef well done. Sushi, tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare. Another interesting evolutionary side note: most of their women have higher testosterone levels than their men.

Most social workers, personal injury attorneys, journalists, dreamers in Hollywood and group therapists are liberals. Liberals invented the designated hitter rule because it wasn't "fair" to make the pitcher also bat.

Conservatives drink domestic beer; they eat red meat, and still provide for their women. Conservatives are big-game hunters, rodeo cowboys, lumber jacks, construction workers, medical doctors, police officers, most corporate executives, all soldiers, some athletes, and generally anyone who works productively outside government. Conservatives who own companies hire other Conservatives who want to work for a living.

Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to "govern" the producers and decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to America. They crept in only after the Wild West was tamed, and created a business of trying to get MORE for nothing.

Here ends the lesson in social history.
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[-nick]

Thanks Eric, you're not so bad yourself

I don't want to get into a I'm right you're wrong match, but the topics are interesting and everyone in my imediate circle agrees with me so I don't get to hear the other side very much. On that note, here are some thoughts:

partial birth abortion: yep it's nasty, but have you ever seen an execution? here's another thought, millions of sperm die if you masturbate- should that be considered mass murder? In fact, rarely does one ever make it to the goal line during intercourse, all the others die- maybe we should outlaw sex altogether? Sounds silly, but you have make a definition of where "life" begins somewhere. Where that point is is very arguable.

Hitler was also a man of convictions, you need a little more than that! (note, I'm not comparing Bush and Hitler here!). Kerry would not have been my first choice for a dem pres, but in my opinion he had more going for him than the Bush- most of this is based on the party platform and not the man himself. In fact, of all the millions of people in this country, it amazes that we can't find two decent candidates to run for office- decent meaning no arrest records, charismatic, honorable, intelligent, etc. I don't think either of these candidates really qualified.

Bush certainly won, but this wasn't exactly a landslide. In fact, it was the closest reelection since Wilson's in 1916.

As for Kerry's plan, well Bush didn't seem to plan to well for the post Iraqi invasion. Oh yeah, the problem was that we "won too quickly"- now there's some spin! Kerry's plan of avoiding a unilateral invasion would have actually cleaned up post-war Iraq and kept us respected by the rest of world. No matter how much you don't like it, there are quite a few other countries on this that we have to get along with.

If all you anti-gay marriage folks are worried about is opening the door toward marrying your pets/tree/etc., then you just need to read the "two consenting adults" part of the definition. Otherwise, you're telling me that two gay people in love break the sanctity of marriage while no one blinks an eye when Britney's marriage lasts four hours and J Lo is on her 20th marriage? You would think that if marriage were so sacred then the divorce rate wouldn't hover around 50%. Or maybe this- marriage is a piece of paper that gives you legal benefits and love is the part that is sacred?

"I actually saw an interview where a person claimed that it was President Bush's environmental policies that caused the hurricanes and the damage in Florida."

Why is it that you're so quotable Stu?
I guess democrats have a monopoly on stupidity? Oh wait, I almost forgot-
"When you're out there campaigning and talking to people, remind them what we have been through as a country. We've been through a recession - that means we're going backwards."
- George W. Bush, Hudson, Wisconsin, Aug. 18, 2004

I don't seem to remember anyone saying kids can't pray in school? Maybe I missed something? I think the point is that the government (aka public schools) has no right to force religion (aka prayer) onto children. You know, kind of the reason we broke away from England to begin with.

gun control: hmm, let's just do away with it entirely. I want my neighbors to cook up bio-weapons in their garage and keep a nuke on their porch, then we'll all be safe because you know how responsible people are!

"The Republican Party is the party of tolerance."
Does that include Trent Lott, or no? Why is it that hate groups tend to be so radically conservative?

I will agree, the dem needs to get it's act together or we're going to be looking at one-party elections.

happy weekend
nick