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david_bryan
Joined: 10 Dec 2003 Posts: 45
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:48 pm Post subject: Shift Kits ? |
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I own a 1980 931 and I think i need a shift kit. There is alot of play in my shifter, it pops out of reverse and 1ts gear, it hard to get into gear and it grinds alot. Its just sloppy. So i think i need a shift kit (corect me if im wrong). So where can i get a shift kit for my car? - Thanks ,david |
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Kenodog
Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 2651 Location: Vancouver,B.C.
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:47 am Post subject: |
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Sounds to me like you need a 1st gear syncro and more.Shift kits are for automatics,short shift kits are not made for our cars. _________________ 1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
1991 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4, Ricky
1996 Ford E-350 ex-FedEx Van
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
2024 KLX300
2024 KLX140 |
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81turbo
Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 1065 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Yes another Snailshell bite the dust. You need a lot more than a shifter! |
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jl924t
Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 214 Location: Surrey, BC Canada
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:55 am Post subject: |
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you can order the parts to firm up your shifter. there are 4 bushings $1.84 ea(999 924 002 40) 2 spring plates $18.88 ea(999 166 034 02) and 2 retaining clips $2.71 ea(477 711 216). This tightened up my shifter. The prices are from a local Porsche diistributor (Weissach.com) with my PCA discount. My guess is that the retaining clips came off. _________________ 1980 924 turbo |
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CMXXXI
Joined: 05 Nov 2002 Posts: 1939 Location: Vicksburg, MS
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:46 am Post subject: |
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If things are really "sloppy" when shifting, I suspect that the bushings linking the shift rod to the transmission shift shaft are worn out. Between these bushings and the guide rod's anchor bushing, these are two very common items that need attention with these gearboxes. The grinding is as Kenodog suggests, probably the synchros needing replacement. Do a search on "shift linkage" or "G31 transmission" and you'll get a lot of info on the problem, and what can be done about it. _________________ '79 Eurospec 931 |
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Lizard
Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 9364 Location: Abbotsford BC. Canada
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 6:17 am Post subject: |
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OK I will cover this 1, you need the following
New ball style bushing which is the lower shift rod lever and snaps onto the torque tube, it is dificult to install,
new rubber busings for the shifter rod, a few buck at your local porsche dealer no biggy to install,
then the tranny will need, new syncros for 1st 2nd and maybe 3rd gear,
as per the popping out of gear this will require new dog teeth, all I have to say is good luck finding the 1st gear syncro and dogteeth.
as per reverse, there is no fix, just be smooth in reverse not pounding the petal then releasing it suddenly as this is when it will pop out, or hold the shifter in.
now onto the tranny info, some people like the snailshell tranny as it is a MUCH more robust tranny and can handle a hell of alot moe power, supplied in 79 924 (not a G31 basically the same but smaller input shaft cannot hadle as much power as the G31), and the 1979 and 1980 931s these have the G31,
the trannies that are supplied in all the other cars including the 951 are audi based trannies, the 924 NA use audi based w/ 20mm shafts, all 931/924S/944/951/968 use audi based trannies w/ 25mm shafts,
now the people who like the dogleg will say try and fix it, but most will say find a 944 w/ a good tranny and torque tube and swap it in, you will only require the tranny, torque tube, and also the shifter linkage as it is different. however the only complication here is the 1979, and 1980 931 w/ the G31 have 2 "arms" which protude from the trailing arm which is what the tranny bolts to, these have to be chopped off or the audi based tranny for the bellhousing to fit, it isn't going to be that hard if you have an angle grinder, I wouldn't use an oxy acetelyn torch in there due to the proximity of the gas tank. the rest bolts in, but while you are in here you might as well replace the clutch disc. anyway hope this helps _________________ 3 928s, |
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CMXXXI
Joined: 05 Nov 2002 Posts: 1939 Location: Vicksburg, MS
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:44 am Post subject: |
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I'm sorry, but I can't bite my tongue on this. Some of these cavalier statements are a real dis-service to our new member who is seeking advice.
Lizard wrote: | ...new rubber busings for the shifter rod, a few buck at your local porsche dealer no biggy to install... | How can you possibly assert this with clear conscience when you know the transmission has to be dropped (if not completely removed) to extract the shift rod? The bushings can not be replaced without pressing out the rod's cross pin, and that is not going to happen with the shift rod still installed (Right, Joe?). Is the job technically difficult? No. Is it preferrable to have decent facilities and a wide selection of tools at your disposal? Yes. I think anyone who has actually performed this work would disagree with the characterization of the job as being "no biggie".
Lizard wrote: | ...as per the popping out of gear this will require new dog teeth, all I have to say is good luck finding the 1st gear syncro and dogteeth... | Can you please explain how the dog teeth will cause things to pop out of gear once its engaged? The dog teeth's function is to engage the synchro and make the mating gear set "spin up" so the teeth on each gear can mesh and allow the shift band to interlock everything. Popping out of gear is a result of not being completely engaged and "locked in place" in the first place (more than likely as a result of bad bushings).
The actual grinding when shifting is the dog teeth attempting to mesh and lock, and they will wear down/out if abused over a period of time. It is very true that you'll be lucky to find a set without buying a new fir$t gear $et and $haft, but the synchro can be found frequently on e-Bay for about $130 ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33733&item=2447329794 )
Lizard wrote: | ...as per reverse, there is no fix... | Reverse is handled by an idler gear that is powered by the "free" first gear. It reverses the input rotation and engages the "fixed" first gear on the pinion shaft. If you repair the first gear engagement problem (synchros and shift bushings) and you will fix reverse.
I'll not get into the inaccuracies and contradictions in the rest of the previous post... _________________ '79 Eurospec 931 |
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Paul
Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 9491 Location: Southeast Wisconsin
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Popping out of gear usually means the operating sleeve needs to be replaced.
Last edited by Paul on Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lizard
Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 9364 Location: Abbotsford BC. Canada
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:03 am Post subject: |
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CMXXXI wrote: | Lizard wrote: | ...new rubber busings for the shifter rod, a few buck at your local porsche dealer no biggy to install... | How can you possibly assert this with clear conscience when you know the transmission has to be dropped (if not completely removed) to extract the shift rod? The bushings can not be replaced without pressing out the rod's cross pin, and that is not going to happen with the shift rod still installed (Right, Joe?). Is the job technically difficult? No. Is it preferrable to have decent facilities and a wide selection of tools at your disposal? Yes. I think anyone who has actually performed this work would disagree with the characterization of the job as being "no biggie". |
on this 1, I am talking about the plastic pieces (sorry not rubber) in the shift rod inside the cabin not on the shift/gear selection rods inside the tranny.
CMXXXI wrote: |
Lizard wrote: | ...as per the popping out of gear this will require new dog teeth, all I have to say is good luck finding the 1st gear syncro and dogteeth... | Can you please explain how the dog teeth will cause things to pop out of gear once its engaged? The dog teeth's function is to engage the synchro and make the mating gear set "spin up" so the teeth on each gear can mesh and allow the shift band to interlock everything. Popping out of gear is a result of not being completely engaged and "locked in place" in the first place (more than likely as a result of bad bushings). | need to refresh my tranny info _________________ 3 928s, |
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Kenodog
Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 2651 Location: Vancouver,B.C.
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:45 am Post subject: |
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You can replace the shifter knuckle bushing in about 2-2 1/2 hours if you have two people and the right tools on hand.We did mine in that time using only hand tools and a vice to push out the cross pin.While you're at it replace the shift rod on top of the tourque tube,it's cheap and not so difficult to install.If it's possible,re-build the G31,it's a really robust tranny,the drive gears are over an inch wide iirc and I was told by a 30 year veteran P-car tranny guy that it will take more power than the early 911 trannys.Good to know if you plan on adding power (intercooler) or more boost.If you try to drop it out yourself know that the Haynes manual actually got it right.(I was kinda surprised)If you follow their instructions step by step you can't go wrong.One tool you will have to make to take the top drivers side allen bolt out is get a 10mm allen key with the ball on the end,cut off the bent part on the end so all you have is the main shaft and put that in a 10mm socket with about a foot of extensions and you'll be rockin'.If you're in my neck of the woods let me know and i'd be glad to help.Good luck ,L _________________ 1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
1991 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4, Ricky
1996 Ford E-350 ex-FedEx Van
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
2024 KLX300
2024 KLX140 |
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Dave951M
Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 57 Location: NC- USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:58 am Post subject: |
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While I'm not sure about this on the pre 81 cars, you do not have to drop the tranny to remove the shift rod on the Audi transmissions. You will have to remove one of the brackets under the torque tube, take the shift rod loose from the shifter and slide the shift rod as far forward as possible. The shift rod should then clear the bellhousing, allowing it to be finagled down and out to the rear. I just did this on my 82 when I realized that I had the wrong shift rod from a 944.
I can see though, that it might not be possible with a snail shell. _________________ Dave951M
86 951 Guards Red (Gone but not Forgotten!)
82 931 Guards Red (under construction) |
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-nick
Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2699 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Yep, the Audi trans is cake. The G31 is a PITA!
If you're getting problems in all gears, I would definitively say that the bushings are the culprit. However, this isn't to say your syncro's aren't likely worn also. All the bushings and 1-2-3 syncros will run about $400, plus labor if you want to really get your shifting back.
-nick |
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Lizard
Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 9364 Location: Abbotsford BC. Canada
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Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:58 am Post subject: |
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I managed to break 2 audi trannies before switching over to the 016/Z and it has been great _________________ 3 928s, |
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81turbo
Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 1065 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:19 am Post subject: |
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We should all be so cool! |
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Lizard
Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 9364 Location: Abbotsford BC. Canada
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Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:25 am Post subject: |
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81turbo wrote: | We should all be so cool! |
you only wish 81,
and I wasn't driving them hard either, they are just a weak design imo _________________ 3 928s, |
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