924Board.org

HappyPuppy · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:40 pm Post subject: VW 16V Cyl. Head on a 924?

Guys, long time no see. I'm back to resurrecting my poor neglected 924 back to its former glory, and I have a few ideas to have some fun.

Could a 16v 4-cyl VW head fit on the Audi block? I know that a favorite mod for the Jetta/Golf crowd is to replace their 1.6/1.8 blocks with Audi 2.0 liter ones.

If the 16v head CAN fit, is it worthwhile? I know that the air flow characteristics of the Porsche head have long been considered a major stumbling block, and it seems that an extra pair of valves, a better flow design, and a popular foundation for a hot cam would yield some serious gains.

'Course I could be wrong--I just want to know whether I'm just crazy today

Alex Roy · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2003 2:29 pm Post subject:

I don't think anybody knows........nobody has tried anything like that that I know of.

Peter_in_AU · Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 2743 Location: Sydney, Australia

check the Head Replacement Options thread in the Performance Upgrades forum.
_________________
1979 924 (Gone to a better place)
1974 Lotus 7 S4 "Big Valve" Twin-cam (waiting)
1982 924 (As featured on Wikipedia)

Learn to love your multimeter and may the search be with you

HappyPuppy · Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2003 11:03 am Post subject:

Well, I looked through that post, and the one below it, and found a lot of interesting things. I especially liked the radical intake port mod discussed--that seems like it could make some real improvements, especially since I'm running carbs.

However, I still never got a definitive answer from that topic, only that there was a VW that might have used a very similar engine.

Oh well, I was planning on doing a little salvage yard searching anyway--I'll bring a 924 head gasket, and see what comes up.

Peter_in_AU · Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 2743 Location: Sydney, Australia

that's the only to get a real answer. Someone has to do the hard yards with a head gasket in hand looking for something that will fit (don't hold your breath) or something that's close enough so the oil and water galleries can be modified to fit.

Good luck. I'm sure there's something out there.
_________________
1979 924 (Gone to a better place)
1974 Lotus 7 S4 "Big Valve" Twin-cam (waiting)
1982 924 (As featured on Wikipedia)

Learn to love your multimeter and may the search be with you

HappyPuppy · Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2003 12:47 pm Post subject:

BTW, did anyone ever figure out the specifics on the Audi 7A 5-cyl engine swap? I've been digging a bit on the net, and I believe that by and far, the Audi 7A is cheapest way to go about breaking the 250+ HP mark.

All I need to know is the specifics of bolting it onto the 924. If anyone has info or specs on fabbing the engine mounts and the parts needed to adapt it to the 924 torque tube, let me know--heck, I'm sure others would be very interested as well.

CBass · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 2807 Location: Vancouver, Canada

I have researched the 5 cylinder swap, and even found 1 person who has done it. Word on the street is, there is a German guy with a yellow 924 that has done this as well, but he doesn't have any documentation on his site.

I'm not familiar with the 7A engine, my swap canidates were the ABY, 3B and AAN engines from the S cars. These made around 230hp stock, except for the 3B, which made 217 I think. The big news is massive torque, 258lbft@1950rpm at any engine speed. The later crossflow DOHC engines are much easier to install, as they don't the intake and exhaust manifolds sticking off the right side of the engine. The SOHC non crossflow engines are much harder, from 925Turbos experience.

The rundown is, you need to fabricate new motor mounts, use a 931 or 944 bellhousing, and it would be a wise idea to upgrade to a 931 or 944/951 transmission, to handle the extra power.

I don't quite remember the specifics, but 925Turbo described to me using a hybrid clutch using Audi and 924 parts. Here's a link to the thread.

http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=1370

Benski · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 4 Location: Pittsburgh, PA

the 16V VW head will not work.
If you take a look at the 924 engine block ( a good picture is available in the technical section of 924.org), you will notice that there are two large water galleys on the side towards the firewall. The VW heads are symmetrical front-to-back and do not have the provisions for these two large holes (a VW head probably wouldn't even cover them up).

Peter_in_AU · Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 2743 Location: Sydney, Australia

we were bouncing around the idea of an adaptor plate to take care of that sort of problem. Would make the whole thing a bit less plug-n-pray though.
_________________
1979 924 (Gone to a better place)
1974 Lotus 7 S4 "Big Valve" Twin-cam (waiting)
1982 924 (As featured on Wikipedia)

Learn to love your multimeter and may the search be with you

912aficionado · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 3

can you do a complete bolt up of any of those vw motors to the 924 tranny? 1.8s or 2.0s from a scirocco, gti, or gli? maybe a g60?

912aficionado · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 3

is there a 16 valve audi head that works?
maybe from a 4000???

coconutcowboy · Joined: 27 May 2003 Posts: 191 Location: Milner, Ga

would be intersting if someone were to make an oil pan withe the proper slant to fit the engine in slantwise and some baffles inside. only thing I dont know about is the intake and exhaust manifolds and how they would relate in position to the 924's.

heard audi had a 60 degree v6 . maybe it would fit.

Sean Ross
_________________
84 944 2.5l NA for sale.

80 924 w/ turbo nose/ m471 option/ ac and Pasha Interior. w/ bursch header and exhaust, stage 2 cam, Audi wur and tb

ricer's shall kneel before the mighty Porsche or unforgivable harm shall befall their engine blocks.

CBass · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 2807 Location: Vancouver, Canada

Here are some good pics of the 20V S4 motor, although this one uses a RS2 exhaust manifold, which places the wastegate directly above the manifold. You can imagine how that might not fit between the head and the 924 strut tower.

http://www.s-cars.org/urs4s6/Articles/ar002/ar002.html

I believe the stock manifold just comes right off the engine, and routes the turbo and exhaust much the same way the 931 does.

CBass · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 2807 Location: Vancouver, Canada

From these pics you can see that the 20V is not much larger than a 924 engine, and is configured in roughly the same way.

coconutcowboy · Joined: 27 May 2003 Posts: 191 Location: Milner, Ga

looks like it would fit with a header. or different manifold.

clutch and bellhousing look to be a cinch.

the audi fuel system dme could be grafted to a 924 or the whole setup could go into a 944 chassis. easier to wire in a dme system.

Sean Ross
_________________
84 944 2.5l NA for sale.

80 924 w/ turbo nose/ m471 option/ ac and Pasha Interior. w/ bursch header and exhaust, stage 2 cam, Audi wur and tb

ricer's shall kneel before the mighty Porsche or unforgivable harm shall befall their engine blocks.