924Board.org

Peter · Joined: 04 Nov 2002 Posts: 379 Location: New York, NY

I have been thinking about an engine swap for a beat-up 924. But, I can't swap anything other than a Porsche engine into a 924 otherwise I couldn't participate in any PCA track events. So what Porsche engine? 911, 914 & 928 engines are out, too hard. A 944 engine is not worth it HP wise. So that leaves a 951 engine. There is an old Jim Pasha Excellence article where he went trough the steps of such a swap. Bottom line, you need a complete 951, the abilities to do the swap, and about $10K for parts. You would take the 951 engine, clutch, torque tube, tranny, suspension, brakes, electronics, etc. Basically the whole car. Then I thought it would be easier to just remove the 924 and 951 shells and swap them --like a toy car.
Then I started thinking some more.
Many people want a 924 sleeper --924 with a Chevy, Ford, Rover, Corvette, etc engine. It is no longer a 924, soooo, how about instead of swapping a 951 into a 924 you swap the 924 front panels, nose, front spoiler, hood & hatch onto a 951 to disguise it like a 924. A lot cheaper and easier. Buy a dented 951 and some 924-body panels and do the swap. As for the rear, you buy the 924GT boxed read panels and make it look like a 924Gt conversion, or leave them as is and say you put aftermarket rear panels on your 924. Don't forget the 924 sticker on the back.
Hey, there are guys doing 924GT conversions with engines that don't equal that of a 951, how about going the easier route. It will still be a sleeper because from the outside it will look like a 924, but everything else will be 951.
Just a crazy thought.. or maybe not?

Lizard · Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2002 6:54 am Post subject:

yah and then you pull the vins and put the 924 vin on the 951 and the 951 on the 924 so that way you save on insurance

_________________
3 928s,

teo · Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 637 Location: Hungary, Europe

what about the oval dash?

Lizard · Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2002 8:22 am Post subject:

it was a custom job

_________________
3 928s,

Peter_in_AU · Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 2743 Location: Sydney, Australia

I've been rolling a similar idea around for Improved Production racing down here. Been thinking more of a 3.0litre NA from an S2 or 968 to stay in the under 3 litre class. For local IP racing the engine needs to have been fitted to the same body so would need to convince the powers that the 944 and 968 are really just pregnant 924s. Probably not too hard as they are dimensionally the same except for increased track.

Isn't the standard reply to 944/951 conversions to just start with a ratty 924S?
_________________
1979 924 (Gone to a better place)
1974 Lotus 7 S4 "Big Valve" Twin-cam (waiting)
1982 924 (As featured on Wikipedia)

Learn to love your multimeter and may the search be with you

dwak · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 839 Location: Eastern Ontario

Any leads on bashed up 951's? I'd be game for it. I've got lot's of 924 body parts.

dwak

Paul · Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2002 1:00 pm Post subject:

Whatcha going to do with the front bumper/intercooler?

Lizard · Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2002 1:36 am Post subject:

that is why peter had stated using a 944/968 3.0L NA
_________________
3 928s,

denis durrell · Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2002 6:40 am Post subject:

I was thinking along the same route re: a 951 and have been since I got my car.. I look forward to the day where I can tear up (top to bottom) my 924 and completely clean it out.

It is my understanding that the three litre engines are harder and more expensive to acquire (variocam anyone?). Recently, I haven't seen a wrecked 944 S2 or 968 that is cheap enough, and people are still wanting a lot of money for parts. I think this task would still require the same amount of money to do a 951 IMO. Then there's Eirik Kvello-Aune in Trondheim, Norway that put a 968 engine in his early 944 http://www.diateam.no/porsche/frame.htm and turbocharged it.

The path of least resistance and obviously the most expensive would be on a part-by-part basis (ouch). But I have the luxury of having a couple of parts places nearby: Parts Heaven (Hayward, Ca), EASY Porsche (Emeryville, Ca), and Silver Star Recycling (Sacramento, Ca) with a ton of wrecked cars.

I am still wondering about that crossmember thing, but not the dash thing (who cares, can use 'newer' 82-85 944 NA instrumention), the engine, clutch, torque tube, transmission, suspension, brakes, wheels, electronics would definitely be ALL used. I asked some people about this (without mentioning my intentions) and a lot of people have said that any modern machine/welding/body shop could make a crossmember modification quite easily and efficiently; if it's under or around US$500.00, then it would be worthwhile. Of course this is just the tip of a huge monetary outlay. we only live once, no?

i haven't yet taken any digi-shots underneath my 924 or 944 to compare what is going on down there, structurally, but here's some data:

If we look into the 944 factory manual (vol. 3), we can find the tolerances for the front floor dimensions on pages 50-07, 08 and the "Repair Control Dimensions" located somewhere called 50-05 (a?). A sample looks like this:

http://www.ddurrelltech.com/pcar/crossmem_dim/

So if we take measurements from A to B (this is I), we can still get the right distance (which i note as "x" or the distance from A to E) and figure in the distances for D and E, we will get I = D+E+x ... with this info, we can then get the proper crossmember distance and at least be close.

1127=599+120+x
x = ~408 +/-4mm

it's all relative, of course. hopefully this will turn into a good thread... any thoughts from the rest of the peanut gallery?
_________________
denis d.
san francisco, usa
83 944 LZ7Z (Gemini Grey)
86 944 LA1Y (Beige metallic, auto)
87 BMW 325es black, 5sp, lsd
---
78 924 red, the cops got it with me in it, in 2002

dwak · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 839 Location: Eastern Ontario

The one 924 thing I would lose is the nose, especially the North American variation (a buck-tooth abortion). Adapt or buy a 951 nose and hide the 'cooler there.

dwak

denis durrell · Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2002 9:40 am Post subject:

dwak: a stock 951 nose (spoiler) won't fit without some degree of modification; i.e., it's not a bolt-on job, the fenders are different. etc. you're best bet would be part #289 (gt-racing) which is made for the NA cars (@ US$500 fg - 600.00 cf). i prefer #241 or #243 though....

peter (Au): "...start with a ratty 924S?" - Sounds SUPER logical, but what about my '77 that I acquired for next to nothing? gotta do something with that car...!

An ideal model year is the 1986 951 (23mm wheel offset, stock trans cooler, speedo/no ABS). I have seen running versions for sale for around US$4500. I have not yet had the nerve to call up any of the Porsche recycling places and ask them what they'd want for the whole car. I've seen NA cars for as low as US$500.00 for the whole thing; wrecked in the front, engine ok, but trans already sold. It'd be nice to just import one cheaply for parts from the EU, God knows that they're cheap (did I speak too soon?! 27.12.02, US$0.957 to €1.00 or US$1 is €1.044!) But as Peter said, an NA engine doesn't justify the thought and financial process.
_________________
denis d.
san francisco, usa
83 944 LZ7Z (Gemini Grey)
86 944 LA1Y (Beige metallic, auto)
87 BMW 325es black, 5sp, lsd
---
78 924 red, the cops got it with me in it, in 2002

Peter_in_AU · Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 2743 Location: Sydney, Australia

for me the 3 litre conversion is just an interesting idea that might be legal for improved production racing down here. I don't have the time, money, workshop, tools or skill to actually do it.

Starting with a 924S would be logical if you wanted to build a 924 sleeper and didn't have a base car already.

One option mentioned before by John in NZ would be to take the front cut (A-pillar forward) from a wrecked 924S and graft it onto a 924. Actually, I suppose you could even graft a 951 front cut on to a 924. This of course assumes that you have the skills to do it or you have a friend who can do it and owes you big-time.
_________________
1979 924 (Gone to a better place)
1974 Lotus 7 S4 "Big Valve" Twin-cam (waiting)
1982 924 (As featured on Wikipedia)

Learn to love your multimeter and may the search be with you

CBass · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 2807 Location: Vancouver, Canada

Ooooh Dwaaaaak...

They've promised me more pictures some time in the next few months. 175 pounds, so that's something like 350 CDN, right? They also offer a ROW 951 style rear bumper for another 45 pounds...

http://www.pro-9.co.uk/initialpage.htm

CBass · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 2807 Location: Vancouver, Canada

Dennis, this is the place to find a 3.0 engine. They quoted me $2200 for a 951 engine, complete with harness and intercooler.

http://www.20thstreetauto.com/partcars4sale.htm

You have to check back every one and a while, as they get new cars in, send old ones the the crusher etc.

denis durrell · Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2003 10:19 am Post subject:

Just came from Parts Heaven.... I asked the guys there about the chassis, crossmembers and mounting points for the engines between early 924 and 944s... um, (Provided these guys know what they're talking about and I think they do, they are definitely authoritative when it comes to this stuff): Verdict is that while the pre 85.5 cars utilise steel crossmembers and later utilise aluminium) they both bolt in exactly the same place on the chassis. Granted I can't verify this firsthand, so I don't truly know (I haven't had the funds to start the process), but I think this is great news. I just might have to give it a go by using my cars to test it. Of course, I am feeling insecure about the chassis on the 924 and am curious to see if it's straight. More later...
_________________
denis d.
san francisco, usa
83 944 LZ7Z (Gemini Grey)
86 944 LA1Y (Beige metallic, auto)
87 BMW 325es black, 5sp, lsd
---
78 924 red, the cops got it with me in it, in 2002