924Board.org

[Gatornapper]

My right door button used to work on up, but not down. Tried rebuilding it - now it doesn't work on either. First switch I haven't been able to successfully rebuild almost ever.

Driver side used to work right window up and down - but it just quit as well.

Cannot find wiring diagram for electric windows in Haynes Manual - guessing earlier non-turbos didn't have them. Can't find in factory Shop Manuals I have either.

I'm an EE and go to schematics when I need help.

Anybody know where I can get this?

TIA,

GN
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'87 944 S, looks & runs like new - sold my sweet 931; '76 914 2.0 mostly restored; 2011 Porsche Cayman S in Meteor Grey, 3.4L, Softronics ECU tune 355+hp , PDK w/Sport Chrono. Got this thing for Porsche's.......

[kondzi]

IIRC there was a mess in wiring these. No consistency and that was changed during the years. I've figured this out by myself when retrofitting (haha) to my 931. I'll check when in garage over weekend maybe I have a drawing of my wiring that works. The important thing is that polarity of buttons on the driver/passenger sides is being changed somewhat that you will not short by pressing the buttons on both sides. Not that hard to figure out when you know what you're doing
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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)

[Gatornapper]

Konrad -

Thanks.

Can you explain how the switches work? Never seen this config - looks like 5 wires go to each switch. I can't even figure out what points make when switch is in up or down position.

GN

[Gatornapper]

Would love identifying the wires to the right window switch:

Blue/Blk, Red/Wh, Brn, Blue, Red/Blk.

Brown is ground. Why is a ground going to the window switch?

Reds are typically 12+.

What makes to what in the switch? Big help to troubleshooting if I knew.

Also strange that driver's switch for pass. window has worked fine always until this week when it too died. Left window works fine.

Any help here is appreciated.

GN
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'87 944 S, looks & runs like new - sold my sweet 931; '76 914 2.0 mostly restored; 2011 Porsche Cayman S in Meteor Grey, 3.4L, Softronics ECU tune 355+hp , PDK w/Sport Chrono. Got this thing for Porsche's.......

[jacobroufa]

https://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?p=336707&sid=7c00c34018f4dd0eaf87dba6766b3769

This post details cleaning the inside of the switch and the contact orientation. I had to buy new switches to get my windows to work -- cleaning them did not work for me either.. One of the doors also I had to replace the switch plug, as a previous owner had done something to melt it and it was part of the problem..

The wiring is FUNKY and IIRC the signal for both windows travels through both doors.. You are not alone in being unable to make sense of it.

My favorite way to search the forum is to enter into Google e.g.:

[Gatornapper]

PRICELESS help Jacob - Thank you!

And great help to on doing Google searches!

Having re-built hundreds of switches I was very careful to re-assemble exactly as I found the switch. Seemed to me I had a connection problem with one of the red wires not being hot, and thinking I had a connector problem in the door or somewhere else. I carefully cleaned all the contacts prior to re-assembly - to no avail. I was surprised.

I think I read 12v+ on upper right contact, but not on lower left. Or vice versa - it was months ago.

The right window has worked fine up and down from driver side - and then suddenly last week it too quit. I did not touch pass. side switch in this time.

Any idea what that may be?

Guess I have to remove the door panel to see what's going on, but first I'll check the switch like in the pic.

Your help is so greatly appreciated.

GN

[Gatornapper]

Ok, I rung out the wires in the switch and the contact connections are as follows:



With ignition on, I am reading 12v + on the Red/Wh wire and contact point, lower left. I am reading 0v on the upper right Red/Blk wire contact. I am thinking it too should read 12v + to the chassis harness.

My switch was assembled correctly as in this pic.

Can anyone confirm to me that the Red/Wh wire should also read 12v +?

I am also thinking while one side is sending 12v + to the motor, the other side is sending 12v - to the motor.....bottom contacts made for UP, top contacts made for DWN. This thus sends BOTH + and - to the motor from the same switch, reversing the polarity for UP and DWN.

Now the switch makes sense.

With the upper right Red/Blk wire dead, and no voltage with ignition on, it also explains why the switch did work in the UP position, but NOT in the DWN position.

Input from others is appreciated.

GN
_________________
'87 944 S, looks & runs like new - sold my sweet 931; '76 914 2.0 mostly restored; 2011 Porsche Cayman S in Meteor Grey, 3.4L, Softronics ECU tune 355+hp , PDK w/Sport Chrono. Got this thing for Porsche's.......

[Gatornapper]

Ok, got the switch figured out - expect to find open in wiring connector in door.

Now, why does neither switch suddenly work up or down?

Aren't the two switches independent of one another?

GN
_________________
'87 944 S, looks & runs like new - sold my sweet 931; '76 914 2.0 mostly restored; 2011 Porsche Cayman S in Meteor Grey, 3.4L, Softronics ECU tune 355+hp , PDK w/Sport Chrono. Got this thing for Porsche's.......

[Gatornapper]

BTW - the two blue wires have to go to the motor.

I have to assume that the Red/Blk wire goes to the window full down limit switch. The Red/Wh wire to the window full up limit switch.

Full down limit switch may be bad or not making.

GN
_________________
'87 944 S, looks & runs like new - sold my sweet 931; '76 914 2.0 mostly restored; 2011 Porsche Cayman S in Meteor Grey, 3.4L, Softronics ECU tune 355+hp , PDK w/Sport Chrono. Got this thing for Porsche's.......

[Fasteddie313]

The drivers switch is independent, the passengers switches are co-dependent..

I forget exactly which contacts off the top of my head but with the switches at rest they are making some contacts which the circuit must pass through for the other switch to work..

In order for a passengers window switch to work the other must be making its correct contacts at rest or no action.. True for both switches..


I also eventually gave up trying to fix my switches, even after getting more used switches..
Failed..

New switches work like a charm..

I am definitely not one to recommend buying new when the old can be fixed, but these window switches are that one thing that yeah.. Just buy new ones..

You’ll be glad you did..
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified

[Gatornapper]

Eddie -

Thanks! My contact identification is correct above. Great advice.

When you press down, the balls press on top two contacts making from center contact to top contacts. Left side sends ground to center contact, right side sends 12+ v to center contact on left. Center contacts go to motor.

When you press up, the balls press on the bottom two contacts, making the left center contact 12v +, and the right center contact ground.

Driver's and Pass. side switches are parallel with one another and do not affect one another.

I've never met a switch I could not rebuild if parts were in good condition - mine look new. I'm gonna keep trying.

Glad to find the switches on Pelican.

Thanks!

GN

[Fasteddie313]

The sides of the little switch bars in there that make the at-rest contacts itch have to be bent in just the right shape/position as to contact at rest, lift when pushed the other way, and never contact all 3 at once..

All of that plus getting the things back together with the little balls in there..

I gave up after MUCH fiddling..

I got them to “work” many times, but they kept stopping working, and the windows were slow..

New switches windows are faster, and they just always work..

I admire your ambition though and wish you luck!!
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified

[Gatornapper]

Eddie -

Will try few more times. All contacts cleaned, seem to be in proper shape. I've rebuild switches like these with the balls in them many times - Lucas switches on my old Triumph motorcycles...........

My problem is the Red/Blk (upper right) wire that should have 12v + is dead.

I jump from lower left Red/Wh wire to right center contact with left center contact grounded and window lowers properly.

Wondering if I can't just jump from one red wire to the other? Problem is, I know there is a reason they are separate. I just don't know what that is. Limit switch source? Lower left stays hot regardless of window position........

So I think the problem is not in the switch itself. If this is so, a new switch won't fix it.

Can I get the switch anywhere cheaper than Pelican?

TIA, as always,

GN

[Gatornapper]

Why the weird shape of the spring holding the contacts, different on different ends?

Being an electrical guy, I believe it is so the two contacts feeding + and - to the motor do not make at the same time. This could cause arcing problems at the contacts that would burn them out prematurely.

It appears that the contact with the rounded end will make before the other end. This makes the rounded end and straight end make contact at different times, the rounded end first.

The upper contacts make for Window Down, right one first. The lower contacts make for Window Up, the left one first.

HTH in understanding on how these switches work.

GN
_________________
'87 944 S, looks & runs like new - sold my sweet 931; '76 914 2.0 mostly restored; 2011 Porsche Cayman S in Meteor Grey, 3.4L, Softronics ECU tune 355+hp , PDK w/Sport Chrono. Got this thing for Porsche's.......

[kondzi]

I found my notes. Will post pics later as I cannot do it from Phone.
_________________
---
Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)