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931 (Woody) project
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1994
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike9311 wrote:
by now this is the wrong place to put this but I just want to show since there are many eyes on this thread

Here is the one difference between a 944 Turbo K26/6 Compressor Wheel and the US S1 924 Turbo K26....both are 2664 compressor wheels but the exducer tip height is different with the 944 on the left is lower in height. Can't just throw a 944 wheel "6" wheel into a US S1 2664 housing. They are the same height at the top of the blades. Picture doesn't show this

[img. ]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49909479678_f9d1b75efe_h.jpg[/img]


The 944 wheel should be a 2667 wheel, which doesn't fit at all since it isn't the same trim either. Don't these have different shaft diameter aswell?
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2039
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CÚdric wrote:
Don't these have different shaft diameter aswell?


Nope, it fits..

Probably need the backplate, cold side piston and rings, wheel, and housing to put the 6 comp onto a 931 turbo..

The 6 has a strange turbine though, and even if you put a 931 wheel in a 6 bearing housing the BH doesn't fit the 931 turbine housing right.. Bad wheel spacing, goes in too deep and hits..
Might have to do with the thickness of the hot side heat shield or something..

No I did not end up using the 951 6 BH.. Just the comp side parts..

931, and 951 8 turbos have the same turbine as well as that audi turbo..
I think the 6 just has an abnormal turbine for a k26..
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 878
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie313 wrote:
CÚdric wrote:
Don't these have different shaft diameter aswell?


Nope, it fits..

Probably need the backplate, cold side piston and rings, wheel, and housing to put the 6 comp onto a 931 turbo..

The 6 has a strange turbine though, and even if you put a 931 wheel in a 6 bearing housing the BH doesn't fit the 931 turbine housing right.. Bad wheel spacing, goes in too deep and hits..
Might have to do with the thickness of the hot side heat shield or something..

No I did not end up using the 951 6 BH.. Just the comp side parts..

931, and 951 8 turbos have the same turbine as well as that audi turbo..
I think the 6 just has an abnormal turbine for a k26..


Cedric - Yes should have called it a 2667. Thanks!

I also agree with Fast Eddie on the shaft diameter. Its the same.

So this is what I don't get though. Going by my picture comparison, unless you use the comp wheel and '44 comp housing, you can't switch over. The 931 wheel is taller so it hits the '44 housing.

I need to go check out your thread again!
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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jacobroufa  



Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 286
Location: Rockford, IL

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow this is all very intense. I don't know that I have nearly enough background or context to properly digest all of this information.

Can anyone recommend some resources to dive into learning more about the basics of turbochargers and how to understand e.g. the efficiency maps y'all posted? Any book or video or website would be super helpful. I know that my math background will hamper me here somewhat, but I'm very curious.

--

For my purposes specifically I'm in the near-ish term interested in intercooling. Because I have most of the parts here and want to save some money until I can afford an Ideola TMCC, I am very very interested in the Eddie/Cedric method of re-indexing the compressor. Since the Audi 2664 compressor housing is a known viable option here, should I be on the lookout solely for the housing or for the whole turbo from which to take the compressor side? The only listing I'm seeing on US ebay for a full turbo right now is this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/254462561357

Eddie does this part number 5326-970-6415 align with your expectations as to a part that would fit? I'd rather not spend $400 if I can get e.g. just the housing I need for less a la https://www.ebay.com/i/253012816193 or maybe I can find it cheaper still... I can't seem to find the thread where you document switching to the Audi cold side though -- can you shed some light as to what specific modifications you made to the 931 turbocharger and what extra parts I might need to think about? Or is it as simple as unscrewing the 931 compressor housing and screwing on the Audi one? (obviously also accounting for pressure management blowoff/recirc, and all the other things I have to think about here -- just concerned specifically with the turbo)
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2039
Location: MI

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah.. I have an Audi 2664 housing sitting right here next to my turtle tank, but you don't need it for a TMCC from Dan....

Yes it's as simple as unscrewing one housing and installing the other, and if you have a double open end/dual angle 10mm, you can do it without you even removing the turbo, if you are good, and patient..

My thread on my IC install is "Intercooler Or Bust".. http://924board.org/viewtopic.php?p=372350&sid=3b37a3f288cdebb57024234162b8c2a6


But the pics are all screwed up
Still have the pics though.. Somewhere..

2 videos on my youtube "Explaining My Intercooler and Turbo setup On My Porsche 924 Turbo / 931 P1/2" https://youtu.be/X2jbkENELMk
Part 2 - https://youtu.be/1wk3QW90cbM

Sorry for the poor lighting and dirty car though..

PN on my Audi turbo tag is 5326 970 6411
Comp housing PN is 5326 101 5071


If you want the TMCC I think you should just wait until you can afford that because the FMIC requires some mods and a little bit of body cutting that you don't have to do for the TMCC.. Namely the front toe hook and a little bit of the front valance..


Otherwise, sorry for hijacking your thread with all these offtopic discussions of CIS and Turbochargers n stuff..
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Last edited by Fasteddie313 on Wed May 20, 2020 4:08 am; edited 3 times in total
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jacobroufa  



Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 286
Location: Rockford, IL

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie313 wrote:
Yes it's as simple as unscrewing one housing and installing the other, and if you have a double open end/dual angle 10mm, you can do it without you even removing the turbo, if you are good, and patient..


Nice, that's brilliant!

Fasteddie313 wrote:
My thread on my IC install is "Intercooler Or Bust".. http://924board.org/viewtopic.php?p=372350&sid=3b37a3f288cdebb57024234162b8c2a6


But the pics are all screwed up
Still have the pics though.. Somewhere..


I did look at this thread then, and maybe it was the lack of pictures that kept me from fully understanding. I have seen a couple pictures of your intercooler intake setup however, thanks to Cedric's FB post mentioned earlier here...

Fasteddie313 wrote:
2 videos on my youtube "Explaining My Intercooler and Turbo setup On My Porsche 924 Turbo / 931 P1/2" https://youtu.be/X2jbkENELMk
Part 2 - https://youtu.be/1wk3QW90cbM

Sorry for the poor lighting and dirty car though..


Awesome! No worries; you should see my cars. Rain is the best wash

Fasteddie313 wrote:
PN on my Audi turbo tag is 5326 970 6411
Comp housing PN is 5326 101 5071


PERFECT!

Fasteddie313 wrote:
If you want the TMCC I think you should just wait until you can afford that because the FMIC requires some mods and a little bit of body cutting that you don't have to do for the TMCC.. Namely the front toe hook and a little bit of the front valance..


I may or may not follow through with this stage prior to TMCC for this reason, but I want to prepare myself to possibly do this, because I really want to turn up the boost and I'm impatient.. I'm just not willing to do so until I have intercooling so I'm stuck, AND impatient now..

Fasteddie313 wrote:
Otherwise, sorry for hijacking your thread with all these offtopic discussions of CIS and Turbochargers n stuff..


No. Please do not apologize. This is amazing, and one of the things I really love about this forum. I'd rather have too much info right now and have to wade through and try to digest it all, than not enough. I'm a software engineer by trade, and my car hobby is like the physical embodiment of that skillset and one of the reasons I enjoy it so much. I am able to use similar thought processes and diagnosing technique as in my day job (albeit I'm such a beginner with this hobby). It's very familiar and approachable for that, and one of the things that helps me at work is more context so fire away. The 931 enthusiasts here embody the very word -- enthusiast -- with the responses given here.. Please do not change that!
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2039
Location: MI

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jacobroufa wrote:

I may or may not follow through with this stage prior to TMCC for this reason, but I want to prepare myself to possibly do this, because I really want to turn up the boost and I'm impatient.. I'm just not willing to do so until I have intercooling so I'm stuck, AND impatient now..

I know that feel.. But seriously I'd advise to just do one or the other..
jacobroufa wrote:
I'm a software engineer by trade

This is where "impatience" to install an IC landed me..

From my IC or bust thread...
"
Fasteddie313 wrote:
IC finally on the way.. ETA Thu, Jun 25..

Sold a couple hundred bucks worth of my Bitcoin ... for Porsche pieces, I just can't wait any longer..

<2015
What I sold to fund my IC project would be worth about $7,500 right now, lol..
#MostExpenciveIntercoolerEver
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Last edited by Fasteddie313 on Wed May 20, 2020 4:19 am; edited 2 times in total
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15506
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jacobroufa wrote:
Can anyone recommend some resources to dive into learning more about the basics of turbochargers and how to understand e.g. the efficiency maps y'all posted?


Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. He owns the company that manufactures my intercoolers.
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1994
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theres not that much out there available for free, corky bells book called maximum boost could be a start, it floats around the net in a pdf if you Google it..
.
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jacobroufa  



Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 286
Location: Rockford, IL

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie313 wrote:
jacobroufa wrote:

I may or may not follow through with this stage prior to TMCC for this reason, but I want to prepare myself to possibly do this, because I really want to turn up the boost and I'm impatient.. I'm just not willing to do so until I have intercooling so I'm stuck, AND impatient now..

I know that feel.. But seriously I'd advise to just do one or the other..
jacobroufa wrote:
I'm a software engineer by trade

This is where "impatience" to install an IC landed me..

From my IC or bust thread...
"
Fasteddie313 wrote:
IC finally on the way.. ETA Thu, Jun 25..

Sold a couple hundred bucks worth of my Bitcoin ... for Porsche pieces, I just can't wait any longer..

<2015
What I sold to fund my IC project would be worth about $7,500 right now, lol..
#MostExpenciveIntercoolerEver


Fair. In retrospect, if you sold at the right time it really could have been worth well more than $7,500 even! I never got into BTC at the right time, but I mined LTC fairly early on and got a couple hundred of them... and I have not had access to that wallet in probably a decade at this point. I think I might still have the HD with the correct info laying around somewhere but I don't have a PC to plug it into anymore!

ideola wrote:
Maximum Boost


Thanks! Of course, this is the one. Though it's a couple bucks cheaper at Powell's, for anyone's reference.
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jacobroufa  



Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 286
Location: Rockford, IL

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been cleaning the heck out of my garage this week trying to get more usable functional space. It's an older 17' x 18' and with two small vintage cars -- my wife's '63 Beetle and the 931 currently -- it's pretty cramped. I've also been driving the Weissach a bit. But mostly focusing on the garage -- tossing a bunch of crap who knows why I kept, organizing and sorting through parts for all the cars, selling parts for cars I don't (or never did) own that I still have for some reason.. It's a long road but so far so good, and I am about to close on selling a bunch of parts which might let me pick up a TMCC sooner rather than later.

Current TODO list:

* replace lower pump -> rad hose
* replace upper thermostat 90░ hose (this one split on my last drive, still waiting for it to arrive)
* replace front control arm bushings
* replace front shocks
* replace tie rod ends if needed
* replace ball joints if needed
* go through the remaining vacuum tidbits (just got some brass tees and more tiny clamps from mcmaster)

When I do the vacuum stuff, I might have to order a couple more elbows, and some of the straight pieces. I replaced a bunch of the line but I'm baffled by how much I missed and glossed over as "probably good enough", looking at it with a more critical eye. I forget where I saw it but somewhere on one of the 931 forums I recall someone saying that their car ran like a whole new car when they replaced all the vacuum bits. Pretty great. I'm looking forward to it.
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2039
Location: MI

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah man.. Just replace ALL the lines under boost/vac and be done with it.. I don't think the big charcoal canister lines matter much though.. Other than that just replace them ALL..

A couple hidden ones are the one that Goes from the turbo cold side to behind the timing belt.. It's a big 90..

The other end of that is accesable if you swing the alternator over to the driver's side.. Under the intake manifold off of runner #1 that goes down behind the timing belt.. It is just a straight one but big..

The small ones to the dist and wur on my car were the worst condition, but looked fine from the outside.. Deceptive..
By the looks of mine on the inside, I can't imagine any of them being even almost ok at this age..
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jacobroufa  



Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 286
Location: Rockford, IL

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pulled all this mess out...



I see what you mean...

I thought I got all of them before, but there's definitely some need to refresh here. The elbows are OK, but not great, the short straight bits are toast. The hose to the brake booster and small vacuum tee off is also really starting to show wear; it's all cracked with age despite looking presentable if dirty on the outside. The small line is also garbage..

Presto change-o!



Upper: old 'n busted
Lower: new hotness

I did a bunch of other vacuum lines prior to this but only the upper ones. So here we go. I need to order some more elbows, small (18mm ID) and large (15mm ID), another brass tee (12mm ID to 3mm ID) some hose (18mm ID) and (12mm id). I need to consult the PET and search a bit more on the forum to be sure, but I think that's right.
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice..
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 878
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice!

You ended up with some nice fittings from that engine. Hard to find this way nowadays
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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