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Water-to-air intercooler installation - 81 931
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chuck21401  



Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Annapolis, MD

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:22 pm    Post subject: Water-to-air intercooler installation - 81 931 Reply with quote

I'm looking forward to installing this water-to-air intercooler from Ideola's Garage into my 81 924 turbo. Special thanks to Dan for processing additional orders.

Step 1 - Open the box





Step 2 - Prepare for the installation.

I'm still in the process of accumulating the other parts necessary to install the intercooler. Dan is sending a parts list.

This is the basic set up that I'm going for



I'm thinking about where to mount the water pump, which radiator to order and where to mount it. I'm also thinking about a 944 expansion tank for the system. I need to study other installations detailed on the board. I have a manual boost controller under the hood but I need a better solution there as well. So I'm hoping to get advice from fellow 924 fans along the away.

Should be a fun project. I'll post updates as I make progress.

[/img]
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1981 Porsche 931


Last edited by chuck21401 on Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1994
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this will be fun to wollow, is the car for street use only or track aswell? That will have a massive impact on the cooling requirements. Cars designed for hard use normally have massive radiators for the low temp cooling cirvuits to keep the IAT low. For road driving it isnt at all as important as it has time to cool of between the pulls.

For MBC i use precision regulators for pneumatic systems, and it works so well, and fairly cheap compared to other car specific MBCs.
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chuck21401  



Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Annapolis, MD

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CÚdric wrote:
this will be fun to follow, is the car for street use only or track as well?


Street use but the occasional autocross.

CÚdric wrote:
That will have a massive impact on the cooling requirements. Cars designed for hard use normally have massive radiators for the low temp cooling cirvuits to keep the IAT low. For road driving it isnt at all as important as it has time to cool of between the pulls.


My main concern is driving in the summer in stop and go traffic. I plan to turn up the boost a bit but not go overboard.

CÚdric wrote:
For MBC i use precision regulators for pneumatic systems, and it works so well, and fairly cheap compared to other car specific MBCs.


I'm currently using one of the turbonetics (0-25psi) MBCs. It's mounted under the hood. It seems to work well but isn't always consistent....most of the time it will be at 8-9 psi max...but other times the boost goes higher than expected...so I might have a leak somewhere.


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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1994
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, in summer stop and go traffic im not sure you need the boost, but heat soak can be an issue. If you have a fairly large heat exchanger up front and can force run the rad fan from a button when you sit there its all happy times. Or an automatic fan switch, but im not sure you can find one for such low temps that we talk about here.
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 877
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just want to chime in here with my experience. Currently using a rigged 'inverter' cooler that doesn't fit properly so its literally strapped out in front of the front valance. Always amazes me how the intercooler remains cooler on the side close to the throttle body when its sitting idling. No fan so far but it was the plan when first installed. The Ideola intercooler reacts quickly and so far I have been much impressed considering where it sits.

New intercooler radiator is on its way though. Need to get rid of mad max install and get it behind the valance. Also need to play with hose routing as well.

You are going to like it
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 877
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the inverter heat exchanger which was strapped to the front of the valance since it was just a tad too long (all inverter heat exchangers out there are the same length unfortunately regardless of how high they go)



The new one arrived today and I might be modifying (cutting and welding the ends) to improve fitment. This one is a beast. Almost as long and at least three times the depth



And the installation up top for reference. Last years hose routing which may change. Might try and "old school" the hose and clamps somehow before she rides again.


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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2038
Location: MI

PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to sound too crazy but this makes me think of using those radiators/heat exchanges that snowmobiles have under their tunnel, over the track, mounted under the floorboard of the car..

Err..
Some of you might not have seen many snowmobiles..


The things are tough as nails too and would keep the weight low and centered on the car instead of putting it in the nose..
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peterld  



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 783
Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's a snowmobile?
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chuck21401  



Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Annapolis, MD

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike9311 wrote:
Just want to chime in here with my experience. Currently using a rigged 'inverter' cooler that doesn't fit properly so its literally strapped out in front of the front valance. Always amazes me how the intercooler remains cooler on the side close to the throttle body when its sitting idling. No fan so far but it was the plan when first installed. The Ideola intercooler reacts quickly and so far I have been much impressed considering where it sits.

New intercooler radiator is on its way though. Need to get rid of mad max install and get it behind the valance. Also need to play with hose routing as well.

You are going to like it


Cool.

I was looking at this one...too big?

Water to Air Intercooler Radiator - 26x7x2 (Type 118)
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/electric-radiator-cooling-fans/air-to-water-radiator-p-1063.html


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chuck21401  



Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Annapolis, MD

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike9311 wrote:
Here is the inverter heat exchanger which was strapped to the front of the valance since it was just a tad too long (all inverter heat exchangers out there are the same length unfortunately regardless of how high they go)


Thanks for you posts on this. What are you using for a boost controller? I'm a bit worried about running a rubber line to the wastegate because of the heat. I actually have an boost control hard line that I could modify...that might be the way to go.

Say, where can I get one of these? And I did read the thread on how it was created.


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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 877
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.ebay.com/itm/aluminum-intercooler-for-Mazda-RX-7-RX7-FC3S-S4-S5-13B-1986-1992-oilcooler/264616353597?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3d9c5d1f3d:g:d2sAAOSwS4NbqfXJ&enc=AQAEAAACUBPxNw%2BVj6nta7CKEs3N0qVezX1Orl5tp269USNhdMuVNfbONAvbYWqTc2j2zDTFJGTLiCXnSYC1HG1Hpzn8aeRc%2BwldLrYuTp34YfHBjaqxTYrzgh6ZZeALZYjuZKx1nHSasqRI27gBD0XhI1J00fwblwudylik%2BGV0IjHUnwq%2Bufr4X82wOwza52%2BSzK%2FDQJRxipsw2aeCJJ8tHhcgGc9B7x547AHdrX9MvsT9K6MhFESMZVUyB7TIFKGf56kD7esOp9JPheT5P5wFRadpgWaNfTaZ9alB04NE9JTq5AEazS2XwJPx49wt9a%2BOOVC9wPqMT7NLMs7TyWmFEDHM8enElVMKpqDSEQdbolQP%2BlZUtvLZoPEfA8xtWITrrXpNmECLy6BhNRjBMkoVXTH10fzX3gyeTnleKYt9Uai5W6XBjkhoaPWykTD71mAQgpaBVY3tFfdU%2FtNT5SbagAMJDYLha3fz7QWm2rNvDNdPAs2%2F%2BeLgH0fLT59xcJTkkpHfcD7LavNeMaIQa8ScGpYm6swrkhxF09WqG%2BBM1L7v0usfrYvauMqAES0NZLnCjYdWSsIYI0mjT1Oa9YiHoIJ%2FpDvmI54J%2B4i1mzpjvo0qBcgNm1IhQsrPf2L4byCRJQVJfgqbIAxeFhGD30%2FUV3iF8%2FwkxJ5kQt%2BIqMd73dN%2B2syGWzueZTWopKfTLmcEApYEeXZKEXkfRDSqv66bv3q6b3YkNuitncD2v7gtrhruaQH6xWbljEfu0wSjF6TPGrLDmDdJAG3%2B9Ybj%2B%2B2vdgleKNE%3D&checksum=264616353597c81856a2b73d4478b756eded61b0e7e4

Yours would be too wide. We have been searching high and low and just discovered the one in the link above. Might still need a few modifications which we are figuring now. Plus fittings of course

I am working on figuring out the elbo pricing. When the prototype for anything gets machined, its a slower process. So now I need to figure out the actual production time. You are my second request for this piece

Edit: Forgot to mention boost controller. Its the all in one from Innovate but it isn't tested in the car yet. Its a boost gauge, boost controller, and AFR in one.

https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/scg1.php

There is a hard goal in April to have the car on the road so I will know soon enough how I like it. My fav HKS controller is ancient and somewhat hard to find now. I ran that on my '80

I am glad Dan is still filling orders on these intercoolers. They are sweet
Not to mention his top mount air to air looked simply awesome up top an engine on a stand
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2010
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuck21401 wrote:
What are you using for a boost controller? I'm a bit worried about running a rubber line to the wastegate because of the heat. I actually have an boost control hard line that I could modify...that might be the way to go.


For bottom port, use the OEM hard line up to top of engine, cut the hard line and then use silicone from there on

For the top port I also used a spare OEM hard line carefully bent to run up the back of the engine, again connected silicone when clear of the heat of the exhaust/turbo.

Or just go to a hydraulic specialist and get them to create a copper hard line on similar bore to OEM and put a banjo on one end and again use silicone hose once the lines are clear of the heat.

Make sure no lines rub the body or bell housing. Boost leaks could allow over boosting
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1994
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the top port i use a silicone hose with a heat shield sleeve over it (or whatever its called), routed with a distance from the manifold. For the bottom port its the OEM pipe.

If the top port hose fails its no real issue since you will default to lower boost pressure.
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 877
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hadn't thought of using an extra line for the top port. Thanks for the tip.

I actually welded an extra port on the Ideola intercooler. Not 100% happy with the geometry but it works with the oem hard line directly. Will add a small extension adapter when I have time
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2010
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one line coming out the boost tube. It tee's off into two lines.....
1. direct to bottom WG port
2. direct to boost controller in the cabin, from cabin to WG top port.

You could do the same with one take off from the IC.
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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