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931 Prices... Did They Just Creep Up?
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robertk  



Joined: 05 Nov 2019
Posts: 2
Location: Corte Madera, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:18 pm    Post subject: The car for $24,500 Reply with quote

https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/dealtank-1980-porsche-924-turbo/

I bought this car late last year from the seller that had it for sale on pcamarket, and before that had listed it on BAT, but with a reserve that must have been higher than $24,500 US, for that was what it was bid up to without sale. They may have just used BAT to guage the value.
I know it is an insane price, but went to see it, I was blown away--complete time warp, for it had not been driven since 1982. Had been driven for two years up to it's 17K miles by the wife of an old friend of the shop that sold it. They were divorced in '82, and the car sat in his climate garage ever since.
Although I would have chosen a Pasha or Plaid interior over the black leather, I just couldn't get over how nice the car was. I felt like I was in high school again when I would go to look at Porsches at the dealer in 1980.
Even the thick heavy weight original floor mats had me. I also fell for the green intrumentation (nice contrast against all the black), original Blaupunk (works perfect), the dogleg, and the manual steering.
The shop that sold it is a specialty Porsche repair and restoration shop in North San Diego. They did a great job refreshing all that was necessary to allow a car that hadn't been driven since 1982 to be driven anywhere. I also had them remove the pin stripes, and place the rear license plate back where it was supposed to be, where the "PORSCHE" reflector had been placed (by dealer).
This is my first Porsche. I've been enjoying old BMWs for some time--e12s mostly, but my daily is a first gen e24. This car is a whole new experience. I love sitting properly low with the steering wheel in your lap; the seats are perfect; and I really like the manual steering.
It's also faster than I expected. Reading about how the US S1 cars only had 143 HP compared to 171-177 in the euro cars made (and continues to make) me kind of sick to my stomach; but, once driving this car, maybe with low expectations, I have found it to be plenty quick enough to have a lot of fun.
I will say this car is more stiff, I might even say, kind of on the harsh side, but it is a price worth paying for the amazing handling. It has the M471 package, which is why it's a fair bit on the firm side.
I know I paid way too much money for the car, but it's what I wanted. I'm thankful to have it, thankful every time I get in to drive it. Which brings me to my dilemma--to just say to hell with it and drive as much as I want. I've already put a thousand miles on it. Or should I keep the miles down? As this thread has gone so far, these cars may never be worth that much, especially in the US. So, might not be much difference with 20K miles versus 50K miles several years from now. Honestly, I don't think it means too much to me. I didn't buy it as an investment (certainly would not have been a good idea paying as much as I did).
What do you guys think?
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8321
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very pretty; those Ventus tires are the culprit for your harsh ride, not the chassis. Not the right tire for the car; BTDT. You need something with a softer sidewall, as the car was designed for. Added bonus, low-speed steering effort will improve.
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Vaughan Scott
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'79 924 #77 ITB racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype
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robertk  



Joined: 05 Nov 2019
Posts: 2
Location: Corte Madera, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:18 am    Post subject: Tires Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply, and the advice. I had no idea about those tires. The shop put those on replacing the original P7s. I didn't think too much other than I wish they had replaced with a more well known brand, or better, P7s. But, I confess, I wasn't sure what was even still made for the 16 inch wheels these days.
Do you have any recommendations?
Thank you
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1985
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never thought of a stock 931s as harsh, ive driven one really low milage s2 and it was very comfy and composed. Tyrea do make a big difference, always good to give the suspension a check over even if its low milage, its still old

You should be able to raise the boost a bit to close the gap to the euro one, just for fun.

Money is just numbers, if you want the car and can afford it, why not. Some people put this much money on a gear box for their track car, some put it into drinking and parties. As long as your enjoying it it's money we'll spent
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jacobroufa  



Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 275
Location: Rockford, IL

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats on the purchase! Very sweet car! I just got a set of Continental ExtremeContact Sport on my 931 a month or so ago, and they ride very nicely and grip well.
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8321
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, tires are massive on this car. I currently have some BFGs, but a few sets prior had BFG KDWS's which were much more of a track tire, like the Ventus, and really didn't like the car with them. The performance was great, but much too stiff to enjoy on normal street driving. Current BFGs I have fitted (can't recall the model) are much much nicer.

Note: I too have the 16" trashcan lids, same as you.
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'79 924 #77 ITB racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
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poor-sche  



Joined: 06 Jan 2017
Posts: 76
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 turbos have sold this year on BAT. Prices always seemed a little inflated to me on that site, not to mention the 5% fee added to the final selling price. They are nice examples however.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1981-porsche-924-turbo-5/ | $8,800

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1980-porsche-924-turbo-16/ | $9,310

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1981-porsche-924-turbo-5-2/ | $12,000
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1983
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buying a car and not driving it in fear of resale value is like not banging your wife to keep her tight for the next guy........
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1983
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poor-sche wrote:
3 turbos have sold this year on BAT. Prices always seemed a little inflated to me on that site, not to mention the 5% fee added to the final selling price. They are nice examples however.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1981-porsche-924-turbo-5/ | $8,800

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1980-porsche-924-turbo-16/ | $9,310

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1981-porsche-924-turbo-5-2/ | $12,000


Still cheaper than in UK/EU....
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
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Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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20thmaine  



Joined: 15 Jun 2020
Posts: 2
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I purchased the Platinum on two-tone brown car on BaT the second time around. I saw the completed auction after it closed the first time (with a deadbeat bidder) and was furious I had missed the ending... so when it came back across the block, I knew I had to win it. My max bid would have been 15k. I wish I had seen the auction before the first close, because I probably could have saved 2-3k, but such is life.

It's a very nice example that has lowish miles and has been well maintained. I need to source a new brown dashboard, but until then the cap will be fine. Virtually all of the interior bits are there and in excellent condition. The wiring is stock with the exception of the rear dealer-installed light panel. I'm back and forth on replacing it. My first Porsche (a Platinum on brown 83 944 purchased back in '99) had a center panel, so there is quite a bit of nostalgia there. I'll probably leave it. It runs well, but has the occasional hard start and rough idle, so I'll have that addressed this summer. The paint is good, but has nearly 40 years of chips and nicks. There are minor details that I need to correct - but no major dents or dings. I'm over the moon happy with the car. I'll be doing an under-body dry-ice treatment this summer snd then just driving the car until I have my mechanic go through it in the fall.

931s are fascinating cars, and a clean one with lower miles and current/correct maintenance is a rare commodity that folks will pay for. It was a travesty these cars came to the states with 30 less horse than Europe, and I'm planning on converting mine to RoW specs (or as close to it as I can get) over the next few months. If they had full european performance, then I have a hunch the entire 924 series would be viewed quite differently here. As it stands, 931s are infinitely more interesting than any NA 944, and ludicrously more rare.

I also own a lower mileage 930 and 3.2 Carrera, and speaking from a multi-example owner perspective, enthusiast interest in the 931 has some legs. My buddies and my mechanic were super interested in the car - dramatically more so than "just" another 911. Most Porsche folks, (myself included prior to this one) have never seen or heard a running example in their lives - much less personally witnessed a #2 car being driven in anger. Their rarity aside, these turbos represent both a fascinating "what-if" and a true "dead-end" in development, and that makes them particularly special.

Performance-wise, in US configuration, the 931 doesn't stand a chance against any 3.0 or later 911, but I have a sneaking suspicion that with a Euro-spec wastegate spring and correct exhaust, she will be a lot closer than you would think to a stock US market 3.0 SC. At that level, I have no doubt she'll decimate any 2.5NA 944 as well. She'll never be a 930, but that's okay, and thinking about things from that perspective misses the point anyway.

Driving-wise, it is a lot more fun in heavy backroad twists than either of my 911s, but it is also much more of a momentum car, and probably on par with an early 944 in that regard. On a curvy highway at speed, the 911s are the better cars, not only from a performance perspective, but also because the sound, visibility, and ergonomics of the 931 can't compete with the character of the aircooled cars. That having been said, the 931 provides a delightful sense of purpose, especially with the turbo kept on boil. It is more entertaining than any NA 944 in that respect, and can give any 911 a run for their money in the pure "fun" department regardless of any performance shortcomings.

It's a shame Porsche didn't stick with the layout of the interiors of the early cars more and evolve it in the same way they did the 911... I much prefer the distinctive 3-pod instrumentation and upright center console early layout to the late 85+ 944s 928-wannabe look. The interior has great character, and the only thing I would change is placing the tach in the center, where it belongs.

I think clean 931s will become 20-30k cars in the US over the next 5 years. I wish that there was better aftermarket support, but they were so rare, and attrition rates were so high, that I imagine this will never happen. As it stands, the 931 is in a much better position for appreciation than the 924, which will always have the NA 944s holding them down en mass.

Sub-50k mile examples of the 931's equivalent 944 variant, the 951, are already $25-30k cars, and 937s are traded at $75k, so I think the room is there for 931s to have their day.

All this having been said, I'll be enjoying my little Platinum one whenever I have the chance! Above all else, though - she'll be maintained correctly.


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jacobroufa  



Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 275
Location: Rockford, IL

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

20thmaine wrote:
I purchased the Platinum on two-tone brown car on BaT the second time around.


Congrats! Welcome to 931 ownership.

20thmaine wrote:
I need to source a new brown dashboard, but until then the cap will be fine.


I have heard that Werk924 has the best reproduction dashes. Several members on the board have them and have raved about their quality.

https://www.werk924.eu/

20thmaine wrote:
I'll be doing an under-body dry-ice treatment this summer


Can you elaborate on this? Have never heard of such a thing...

---

Nice beetles! I kid, I love my '63 beetle but I would REALLY dig an 86 M491 coupe one day.. It's pretty great that you have those cars to compare side by side though. Thanks for sharing!
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20thmaine  



Joined: 15 Jun 2020
Posts: 2
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the dash link! I'll check it out asap.

https://petrolicious.com/articles/cleaning-a-classic-car-with-dry-ice-is-actually-a-thing

Dry Ice gives a great blank slate to go from. This car sat in storage without a vapor barrier at some point, so a lot of the underside has a kind of grimy film on it. Dry ice will take that right off. It also works well on exhausts and fittings.

I used to be a huge anti-911 guy... then at 944Fest (an old annual Rennlist meetup in the early 2000s) I ran into a guy with an early 3.3 white 930, and I was smitten. An early beetle would make a sweet cruiser. Ghias were always high on my list too. With kiddos I'm thinking a bay is more realistic!
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chuck21401  



Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 243
Location: Annapolis, MD

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Most Porsche folks, (myself included prior to this one) have never seen or heard a running example in their lives


To this day I've never seen another 924 turbo on the road besides the one I own. And when I see a 924, it's usually a 87/88 924S.

Quote:
Performance-wise, in US configuration, the 931 doesn't stand a chance against any 3.0 or later 911, but I have a sneaking suspicion that with a Euro-spec wastegate spring and correct exhaust, she will be a lot closer than you would think to a stock US market 3.0 SC.


I think it would be close. That flat 6 though.

Quote:
That having been said, the 931 provides a delightful sense of purpose, especially with the turbo kept on boil. It is more entertaining than any NA 944 in that respect, and can give any 911 a run for their money in the pure "fun" department regardless of any performance shortcomings.


And I think that this will drive up the prices just as soon as (if?) more people find out. I've owned a number Porsches over the years and my 924 turbo is one of my favorites. Especially when the boost kicks in and running 9/10psi. That being said, to this day I regret selling my 1978 911SC targa.

I've owned other transaxle Porsches. 944NA, 944 turbo, 968 convertible. Looking back on it, the 944NA was the most fun to drive of those three. The 944 turbo had more power but IMHO wasn't as much to fun to drive at slow speeds. The 968 was a wonderful car but it felt big and heavy. The 924 turbo seems more nimble and has the boost rush.

Quote:

I think clean 931s will become 20-30k cars in the US over the next 5 years.


I hope that you are right. Maybe the rising tide will lift all boats for those of us that own not-so-clean 931s. I bought my car for $3500. I figure that I'll put $5K into it and then it will be worth $4000.
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1994
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I have only ever seen 2 narrowbody cars in person, and the other one didn't run, was an NA with a completely trashed interior for sale..

The 931 I stumbled into ownership of, I think I saw many years prior in Alpena at a mobile home dealer long before I got it..

I only paid a few hundred bucks and some motorcycle work for it from my friend that bought it when we saw it on the side of the road for sale, paid $650 for it there I think..

I have put a lot of money, and a ridiculous amount of time into it since then, and it still needs lots of little things like trans work and a new heater core etc.. because I have just been fixated on engine side stuff..

I have no idea what my car is worth.. Probably less because of all my custom engine stuff would be a lot for someone else to understand and take over...

But I don't really care because I'm sure it is worth a lot less than I would even consider selling it for.. It's worth a lot more to me than whatever $$ someone else would give for it.. I can't ever sell it because the loss would be massive..I do consider all my time worth something..

And besides, what would I replace it with?
I don't much like newer cars with all their fancy electronics..
I can probably keep my 931 running forever as long as you guys don't jack the price of parts up to the moon with all your wishes for higher values, lol..
I want it to stay a $2500 car so I can keep affording to fix it!

I love the car.. It is exactly what I want it for, and it is something that I can actually customize with things I enjoy making myself rather than just a bunch of bolt-ons..
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 846
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie313 wrote:
I think I have only ever seen 2 narrowbody cars in person, and the other one didn't run, was an NA with a completely trashed interior for sale..

The 931 I stumbled into ownership of, I think I saw many years prior in Alpena at a mobile home dealer long before I got it..

I only paid a few hundred bucks and some motorcycle work for it from my friend that bought it when we saw it on the side of the road for sale, paid $650 for it there I think..

I have put a lot of money, and a ridiculous amount of time into it since then, and it still needs lots of little things like trans work and a new heater core etc.. because I have just been fixated on engine side stuff..

I have no idea what my car is worth.. Probably less because of all my custom engine stuff would be a lot for someone else to understand and take over...

But I don't really care because I'm sure it is worth a lot less than I would even consider selling it for.. It's worth a lot more to me than whatever $$ someone else would give for it.. I can't ever sell it because the loss would be massive..I do consider all my time worth something..

And besides, what would I replace it with?
I don't much like newer cars with all their fancy electronics..
I can probably keep my 931 running forever as long as you guys don't jack the price of parts up to the moon with all your wishes for higher values, lol..
I want it to stay a $2500 car so I can keep affording to fix it!

I love the car.. It is exactly what I want it for, and it is something that I can actually customize with things I enjoy making myself rather than just a bunch of bolt-ons..


I got a funny story for you... So back in the early 90's I cruised Traverse City and all around Elk and Torch in my '80 931 somewhat regularly. We were between Elk and Torch and I get asked "Is that one of them new Mustangs?" Ah no
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