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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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 Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:13 am Post subject: |
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More good info XLR8 and appreciated.
What are you using for shock absorbers?
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'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
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Carrera RSR
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2309
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Here you go https://petrolicious.com/articles/history-will-repeat-itself-in-monte-carlo-when-this-porsche-924-turbo-returns-in-2019
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
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Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252 |
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Yes I saw that and saved it in my favorites. It was instrumental in firing up my interest even more. They did a fantastic job on that car however my little project won't nearly be that ambitious but of course Jurgen and Roland won't be driving it!!!
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'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:13 am Post subject: |
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I've been looking into various possibilities for gravel tires and I think my choices may be limited. Genuine rally tires are probably out of the question as for the most part they are not "really" DOT, (Department of Transportation), legal, fairly pricey, and lifespan is a question especially considering that the car will get a fair amount of road use. I've also looked into all terrain tires but have not found any sizes smaller than a 235/75x15 and no 14" sizes at all. They also seem fairly heavy but on the plus side they are durable and highway friendly. If I could find something in the 195 to 215 range that may work.
Given that the gravel roads I intend to take are a combination of hard packed, rutty, rocky, sandy and silty I could use some sage advice. I'm thinking something with a somewhat aggressive tread pattern is what I would want. One street tire that I noticed was the BFG T/A radial with the original style tread pattern that it had when it first came out, which was a little aggressive, and that may be a possibility.
Any thoughts?
I'm also still working on some shock research and most sites that I've visited are geared toward a more serious individual than I...no surprise there, LOL!
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'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
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gegge
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 1124
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:34 am Post subject: |
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I had Kumho MT KL71 fitted on my Subaru Forester five years ago. Open and
aggresive tread indead, working great in mud and snow. Hard to say if traction on gravel was good due to +250hp, even with 4WD it was difficult to find grip at reasonable speeds. The noise was terrible though compared to street tires. Availabe as 195-R15 in Europe and 27" fitted on 14 OEM rims. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_DkE56ivWc
"Bad ass!"
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Carl Fredrik Torkildsen
924 turbo -81 Carrera GT RESTOMOD
924 turbo -80 Dolomite De Luxe
924 -85 DP kit, BBS RS, M030 and tuned engine
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| gegge wrote: | I had Kumho MT KL71 fitted on my Subaru Forester five years ago. Open and
aggresive tread indead, working great in mud and snow. Hard to say if traction on gravel was good due to +250hp, even with 4WD it was difficult to find grip at reasonable speeds. The noise was terrible though compared to street tires. Availabe as 195-R15 in Europe and 27" fitted on 14 OEM rims.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_DkE56ivWc
"Bad ass!" |
Well I just looked them up on Kuhmo's USA website as well as some of the dealers and again it looks like the smallest 15" wheel size is 235/75R15. The search continues!
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'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
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XLR8
Joined: 30 Mar 2016
Posts: 143
Location: Byron Bay, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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Grab some Citroen steel wheels in 15". They are 4x108 and would be perfect for a gravel car. Close offset on the C5 model I believe.
As for my shocks, I am using reasonably new Boge. Fine so far, but potentially a little under damped with the rear sway bar I have fitted.
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'89 Eunos Roadster NA6
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gegge
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
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Location: Sweden
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Raceboy
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2326
Location: Estonia, Europe
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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I think 924 with bigger and heavier gravel tires would be a complete dog with even euro 125 hp..
If making anything fun, then absolutely would need some turbo so you get the torque up and having some muscle to turn these heavy wheels and actually being able to go sideways. Otherwise it would be just torturing yourself.
My turbocharged 924 n/a engine sits in my friends winter track car that sees mostly snow and ice tracks on frozen lakes during winters, wouldn't even ant to drive it with n/a engine.. With LSD, special ice tires it is super fun and is very fast car with 240 hp, bucket seats, no interior.
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'83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S, sold
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold 
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| XLR8 wrote: | Grab some Citroen steel wheels in 15". They are 4x108 and would be perfect for a gravel car. Close offset on the C5 model I believe.
As for my shocks, I am using reasonably new Boge. Fine so far, but potentially a little under damped with the rear sway bar I have fitted. |
Citroen "anything" much less wheels is rarer than hen's teeth here in the States since they haven't been imported here since Moby Dick was a minnow. However I can research other manufacturers for a steel wheel alternative if I choose that path. I am going to be looking into shock alternatives such as Boge and, perish the thought, KYB's.
Thank you!
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'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| gegge wrote: | https://blog.ecstuning.com/2018/11/08/this-off-road-porsche-might-be-the-coolest-944-ever/
Ever..? |
That's basically the "spirit" of what I'm going for but with a bit more emphasis on overall execution.
Showcasing the 944 brings up a point though. 944's are fairly plentiful compared to 924's and even the later 924S. I already have a 944 that will be used only for touring and some errands and I don't wish to modify it as it is fairly original. However when considering the earlier 924's I must admit that I'm more than a bit concerned about future parts availability. This does have me thinking about a 2.5L car instead and perhaps waiting for the right later 924S to pop up. I really would like to stay with the 924 body for this project if I can.
Thanks for sharing the article!
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'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Raceboy wrote: | I think 924 with bigger and heavier gravel tires would be a complete dog with even euro 125 hp..
If making anything fun, then absolutely would need some turbo so you get the torque up and having some muscle to turn these heavy wheels and actually being able to go sideways. Otherwise it would be just torturing yourself.
My turbocharged 924 n/a engine sits in my friends winter track car that sees mostly snow and ice tracks on frozen lakes during winters, wouldn't even ant to drive it with n/a engine.. With LSD, special ice tires it is super fun and is very fast car with 240 hp, bucket seats, no interior. |
I have given some consideration to the 931...in fact a fellow less than 100 miles from my home has two of them for sale right now that he is advertising as one running and one parts car. I appreciate your thoughts about a NA being too underpowered for any serious "toss around" fun and you do have a valid point. The question for me is how much time do I want to spend "tweaking" the engine and then making chassis upgrades to take advantage of the "tweaks" plus the potential for higher maintenance. I've basically played that game for over 40 years and although my love of "tinkering" hasn't faded, my motivation doesn't always match my enthusiasm at times as I've developed other interests as I've gotten older.
The other factor is as I expressed in my reply to gegge is that I'm concerned about future parts availability which has me giving serious thought to a 2.5L car. It may not have the power of your turbo but is certainly closer to a 931's power here in the States and may actually be a better choice for me. I must keep in mind that my original purpose is to build a fun car to explore the desert here in Arizona and to take to a couple of shows or "cars and coffee" events to expose people to a different purpose for owning a Porsche since there aren't a lot of Rally enthusiasts here in the States!!! I have no desire to compete at this stage so simplicity in the engine/chassis department is more of a priority rather than higher performance.
Thanks for your input...and I still may consider those two 931's as he isn't asking a whole lot of money!
_________________
'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
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Raceboy
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2326
Location: Estonia, Europe
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:57 am Post subject: |
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It is cheaper and better to turbocharge n/a engine than to have 931 reliable enough to actually use it for track or rally.
over last 5-6 years our ice track car has gotten all sorts of stuff, mostly suspension stuff and body repairs due to off track stuff but engine has only seen oil changes, totally trouble free (turbocharged euro 924 with EFI conversion).
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'83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S, sold
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
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Cedric
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2609
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:55 am Post subject: |
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I can't really agree on the na, I've driven my fair share of n/a, alot of track but also slippery stuff. It think the 125hp is well enough to have plenty of fun on gravel and snow. Personally I wouldn't bother with the alu engines, more complicated, expensive and more prone to go wrong. But sure, with the strangled 924 it might be a bit different, I've never driven one. Ice with full rally studs is much more power demanding, it's more similar to drifting on high speed asphalt tracks than gravel or snow roads with normal winter tyres.
In my opinion, if you start with a good 931, to get it reliable on track like mine has been its not super expensive. But it takes much more knowledge and you need to be much more thorough in general than when bashing around in an na. When it goes wrong it really does. And some parts are trickier to find. A turbocharged n'a like raceboys is a sensible option if you really want a turbo car, na engines are almost free if you blow it up. But of course it takes skills to build and tune it. Different concepts fits different people..
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1980 924 Turbo
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8883
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:35 am Post subject: |
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I think i’m going to literally strap a supercharger to my 85 2L NA once its up and running well enough. Run 0.3 bar without an intercooler.
A low boost supercharger or small turbocharger strapped on to the 2L NA would kick it back into to fun teritory, especially for gravel road driving.
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