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The Green 931 -my first transaxle ever (resurrection thread)
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 89
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been a while. I certainly need to sell some of my other cars, as it all takes to much time xD
Due to lot of things I finally decided to marry my 996 Turbo Callipers with my 931.



This is still WIP, but at least I'm moving forward with something

The difference between the callipers and discs is just tremendous.


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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 89
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm prototyping callipers' adapters with a 3D Printer, which I find really useful in that area. The plan is to fabricate these in the end from 7075 T6.

Started with something very basic, just to get the dimensions quite right:




And that just made me thing how much it would weight if made from steel
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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 89
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So currently I'm at prototype #3 (to be verified). The pics attached here is proto #2 with slight mods and corrections noted.





With this modified proto #2 I'm almost done for production. Just need to verify all that changes in proto #3 so it will slip in and that's it.


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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 89
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did some clean-up with the hubs as well. Need to replace studs with slightly longer ones (disc mounted in front of hub, rather than in back + spacer 7mm).


Replaced the bearing and seal as well.
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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 89
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is my proto #2 with mods, proto #2and1/2 (wa sleeping when run out of filament on my 3D printer )
and the proto #3 that I need to test. Hope it will really just slip in and then I go to CNC shop to fabricate it in Aluminum.


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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 89
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gap between wheel arms and caliper is currently c.a. 2mm.
This should be fine I hope. Never had to deal with so small clearance before in other cars. Read the Brembo manual, and they suggest 3mm clearance. Other performance brake makers suggest 2mm, with a no go below 1.5mm.

What you suggest, 2mm is fine?



And that's how they fit from the broader perspective, just fab. And I know they will brake much better than they look. And I know it's an overkill for 931, but who matters


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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1843
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kondzi wrote:
And I know it's an overkill for 931, but who matters


If you eventually put this sort of effort into making power then it might not be..
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8114
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2mm is not a lot...you know that...right?
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 89
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

morghen wrote:
2mm is not a lot...you know that...right?

Thatís why Iím open to discuss. Will check the clearace once again with the #3 proto caliper bracket, as the caliper will move a bit towards the axle, making a bit more room wher wheel arms bend. On the other hand what can change that clearance in a running car? Only if you hit a curb with outside of your wheel with side force? Or something like that. Not highly possible with street use weekend car. Adding 1mm more means 8mm spacers rather than 7mm and so on. Not much issue, but still want to keep the wheels within the wings. Not willing to go RWB style And 17 inch rim is minimum. Cup2 7 inch wide and ET55 is lowest I could find to fit 924. Will install adjusted top mounts, so with slight negative camber I could compensate for wider spacer anyway.
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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1885
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can easily lock up stock front and rear brakes on my 924 turbo....... even with R tyres on. Just needs good OEM discs, sticky pads and good fresh fluid well bled.

Hats off to you for making them beasts fit....

(my thoughts are ....more weight on the hub and wheel will have other effects on the performance of car ....)
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 89
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not everything we do has to be sensible
Iíll do weight compare old discs and calipers vs new ones.
Discs are heavy, but calipers are light.
Locking wheels is not the case. I could do that with 245mm solid discs and drums in my Ford Capri... but just once. You want to be on edge of grip and do it all day long on a track day. Thatís where the difference is.
Unfortunately I know Iím doing most of that mods just to prove myself I can and it will work. Thatís it But donít you like it that way?
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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1885
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said, hats off to you trying
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 89
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just checked the #3 proto, and all fits well. This means now Iíll spend some time to find a CNC shop with good offer to machine the brackets for me.
And then... I always have this dilema - to spend more time and make everything shiny (glass blast calipers, powder coat, add porsche logo), or just put it on car as is with all the scratches and drive...
As of the clearance Iíll check it with final brackets and decide how thick spacers to use.
_________________
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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1843
Location: MI

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kondzi wrote:
Not everything we do has to be sensible


Right..
Don't feel bad, many said the same things when I was talking about my brake upgrade, and probably a few other curious mods I've done..

I have quad pot calipers upfront that match my stock brake bias about perfectly, but I still plan on putting larger piston'd rears on, changing to F/R split, and installing an adjustable prop valve to the rears so I can dial whatever F/R bias I want, but haven't done my lines or rears yet..

Is it needed? No..
Do I think it's cool? Yup..

Is my fuel system the optimal setup? No, EFI is probably better..
But I like it..

Do to your car whatever you like!

What is you plan to fix your brake bias?
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 89
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie313 wrote:

What is you plan to fix your brake bias?

Iíve talked quite a lot to that guy https://youtu.be/-_VZytrWc-A
I will be basically doing same setup but in 924. Heís running it for 6 years now with no issues it appeard, but learned that just after I came up with 996 calipers mod on a Polish 924 forum xD
Rear discs from late 951 and rear Boxter S 986 calipers.
And I need to upgrade the master cylinder obviously. The 944 one should be fine. Not sure about the brake lines / distribution. These are quite fancy in my 931 - as far as I remember these are kind of cross connected. I.e. Front right is connected with rear or so...
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Konrad
'89 951 US
'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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