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My new keeper. 'Olive'
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1728
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrera RSR wrote:
Kenodog wrote:
CÚdric wrote:
That is nuts! Where did you find that? Must have been expensive.. What turbo will you run? 2664 compressor?


Well it wasn't cheap ! I got it from a fellow 'Board member here that wanted some parts I had, as well, I shot him some shekel.

The turbo going onto the new motor is exactly the same as the one on her now, except it's brand spanking new. A 1979 6.10 turbo with the 2664 wheel. Pics are in another thread, it's got a perty mouth. . .mmm

She's going to be a screamer this one.


Nice!!

I'd aim for forged pistons (more resilient to det than cast, CGT and GTS used forged), 8.0:1 CR max and turn up the boost to 1.0bar. Add in some electronic ignition control. Mine achieved 225bhp at 1.0bar with a 2660 6.10 turbo. So Cedric's suggestion is near the money with a 2664 6.10.



If you dont have the possibility to do any simulations etc, a rough guide could be to take a look in the KKK catalogue for a specific compressor and see what other cars that use it and what power level they chose.

The 2664 with #6 housing as you are using is the same specification as the original Audi Quattro for example, at 200hp, and also ferrari used the same spec for its 2l V8 at 220 HP.

#6 and 2670 as we have chosen is used by Lancia in the Delta S4 stradale 1.8l 250hp homologation version of the group B car

I would be careful running to much boost with the TMIC withouth any knock indication, there was a race car here in sweden which broke his engine a couple of times at 1 bar with TMIC and JE pistons, he didnt have WB or knock monitoring though, which is a smart idea if you want to push it.
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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2438
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mistake ! I bought the NOS turbo over a year ago and forgot it is actually a 1979 unit which makes it a 6.10 2470. Looked at the data tag last night to confirm.

Olive is not going to be about making big power. I just want *more than stock* ,reliable and quick revving for fun. This will just be a show / fun car for sunny days. Otherwise she will just be a garage queen. I am not worried about det or anything either, the wastegate spring is a 10 psi unit and she only sips the finest dino juice available which is the Chevron 94 octane. (For you Euro folk that is about 100 RON gas and contains ZERO ethanol.)

Sabine will be the stripped out big bore, highly modified fun car. She will have all of the fancy late model mods that I am not allowed to put on Olive because of insurance restrictions. Roll cage, no interior, no dash, no A/C, 951 suspension and big brakes, the works.


Moi
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1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kid's limo)
2008 GS500
1996 Dodge Caravan (DJV)
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1728
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aha, I would seriously consider changing that compressor out, its out of puff even on a stock euro 931, its an ancient design not suited for more massflow than stock. Dont you sit on mountains of turbos?

I look forward to the build up of sabine!
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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2438
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't though. I have the exact same turbo on Olive right now and it doesn't begin to make decent boost until 3k and pulls hard to 6k ,no problems.

Yes, I have a pile of turbos I spread over the floor and make turbo-snow angels on. . .

The motor has 87mm pistons from Mahle with a factory 931 part number. They are beautiful. I will be using a 0.027" Cometic gasket so it will lower the C/R enough that *hopefully* she will be between 8-8.5. This is fine for me.

Sabine will get the modded turbo. 951 water cooled bearing housing, big compressor etc.
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1981 931, Sabine
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kid's limo)
2008 GS500
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1563
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Cedric. Get a 2664 bolted to that turbine.

Here's a 2470(S1) v's 2670(GTS) Fairly obvious which is which




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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1728
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrera RSR wrote:
I'm with Cedric. Get a 2664 bolted to that turbine.

Here's a 2470(S1) v's 2670(GTS) Fairly obvious which is which






It really is on the downhill efficiency wise at 170hp , more flow will push it into a really unhealthy operating point below at 50% efficency.

The kind of design you see on the 2470 with no backsweep on the blades really makes it sensitive regarding flow increases, it makes the map taller/narrower and better for higher pressure ratios, probably developed for a low speed diesel engine if i would make an educated guess. Both the 2660 and 2664 uses the more modern design that Steve is showing. But it all depends on how you will run the car.

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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2438
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do understand your concerns, and thank you. What I don't get then is why the car pulls strong to almost redline with 10psi on the guage ? No intercooler (yet) and all the stock bits inside. IIRC the car came with 170hp @ 7psi boost from the factory. This car is past that at full rip, no doubt about that. This isn't my first trip to the modified 931 rodeo, I am aware of what a stock 931 feels like..

I may have to call the PO and see if he can remember having work done to the turbo when they rebuilt it...



Me
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1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kid's limo)
2008 GS500
1996 Dodge Caravan (DJV)
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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2438
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was driving Olive into downtown Vancouver and was just about there when I put the clutch in at a red light and it didn't want to come back up. Turns out the firewall crack is worse than I thought and is kinking the clutch master piston sideways. Unfortunately I cannot install it until spring when I pull the motor, these things require working space and a few mods to install on a 931 correctly.
Ah well, no biggie, I will add it to the list.



Also found this compressor wheel and couldn't track the number. Anyone have an idea where it's from ?





Lee
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1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kid's limo)
2008 GS500
1996 Dodge Caravan (DJV)
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1728
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shite, maybe i should take a look at my firewall. I heard that plate is a royal PITA to install, but it can obviously be very nessecary.

I searched through the KKK sowftare, and it was a bit short on info.

According to the catalogue it should be part of these turbos

5326 988 6720

5326 988 6721

it wont tell me what those turbos are used for though, but after some googling it seems to be a 944 turbo 220hp, and also porsche 959, which is a 2667 compressor. Should be good for quite some fun!

Is the inlet 44mm in diameter?
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7857
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That plate is overkill.
My 924 NA did not come with hidraulic clutch so the firewall was even weaker.
I did a small aluminium reinforcement that i was able to fit on the inside of the firewall to support the clutch cylinder and had no problem with firewall flex or cracking.
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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2438
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

morghen wrote:
That plate is overkill.
My 924 NA did not come with hidraulic clutch so the firewall was even weaker.
I did a small aluminium reinforcement that i was able to fit on the inside of the firewall to support the clutch cylinder and had no problem with firewall flex or cracking.


I have made 2 little brackets like that but nothing compares to this plate. The one I installed on Sabine I used professional panel sealer under then bolted it with ALL the bolts to the firewall. Once that glue set up it is rock solid. I mean perfect.




Li
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1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kid's limo)
2008 GS500
1996 Dodge Caravan (DJV)
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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2438
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I spent my Sunday in a productive manor. I drove to beautiful Seattle Warshington to meet up with a fellow that posted here, PeterW. We had been talking about some of the spare parts he had from decades of 931 ownership that, sadly, for him are coming to an end. Fortunately for myself however I got to grab some very nice bits for both Olive and Sabine. . .

Front and rear Euro bumpers in excellent condition, including brand new driving lights. Also a 931 lower valance in great shape and a NOS 924 N/A lower valance in perfect condition





NOS Fuel pump



Rear hatch drain catches and rubbers



Genuine GTR factory manual



NOS CIS pressure control valve, seals and asst hoses



NOS Clutch fork shaft



NOS Heater hose



Golden nuts in many, many sizes



NOS Driver's side motor mount



An unbelievably well made custom rad shroud with fan



NOS throw out bearing, excellent used motor mount and NOS door handle seals



An excellent pair of G31 transaxle mounts



NOS wastegate diaphragm



1 of 2 water pump lower hoses


Excellent door card, ceramic coated exhaust pipes, NOS VDO boost gauge, custom braided SS oil feed and return lines, NOS rear Euro bumper strip, NOS side window wipers seals





NOS Perma-Cool oil filter relocation kit





There is a bunch of other stuff, gasket sets, seals, grommets etc., I just didn't list it all for want of time. Now we come to the best part and the reason I posted this in Olive's thread, I also got a new G31 box for her, granted it will need a rebuild, but it is one of the good ones :



I also got a chance to see both the rebuilt long block and the '80 931 he is selling and I can say, if you are in the market grab them. Real deal stuff from someone that was a long time owner and didn't go cheap on parts. If I didn't just drop all of the parts to the engine shop for Olive's new motor I would grab that long block right bloody now.


I just couldn't be happier. Thank you Peter ,if you read this, and know that all of these parts will go to support 931's in the future !
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1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kid's limo)
2008 GS500
1996 Dodge Caravan (DJV)
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Power Tryp  



Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 427
Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I'll give you $50 for those bumpers.
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Melanie - 1980 931
Scrappy - 1980 924 shell
NoName - 1980 931 (seeking rebuild)

Green tartan interior, you don't see that on a Civic.
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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2438
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hrmmmm....
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1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kid's limo)
2008 GS500
1996 Dodge Caravan (DJV)
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Power Tryp  



Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 427
Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, ok. $55, final offer.
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Scrappy - 1980 924 shell
NoName - 1980 931 (seeking rebuild)

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