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Newbie wants MORE POWER
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nickthompson  



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 847
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nickthompson wrote:
Noahs944 wrote:
If the 924 n/a can't handle 35 horsepower of boost in stock form... well, that says a lot about the quality of components these cars are made of... since just about every other car on the planet could handle it.

Nicky, I'm walking away from this conversation because I don't feel like I have someone competent enough to spar with (based on your previous arguments). A bit disappointing.


The guy that wants to put headers sticking out the top of his hood calling someone a mental midget. That's laughable.
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1445
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why can an NA 924 hold 400+HP turbo but not easily 200HP on nitrous?

You can blow up a 924 @ 200HP on turbo too, with a bad tune, as you could nitrous with a bad tune..

But with a good tune, it should hold serious nitrous power as well as it does turbo power..

Why would it not?

We're talking about only around +50HP, it would hardly be worth installing a turbo for only 50hp.

Done correctly, I doubt it would have a problem holding +200 nitrous..

But like I said, step 1, obtain a premium mechanical operating condition.
Better be in good tune or you might melt your pistons with no mods..

If I could, I would like to put a little 30hp ish nitrous shot on my turbo, say any time above 2500rpm until boost reaches 10-13psi then off, to spool my turbo NOW! Might need something like that some day with a turbo good for 2 bars, the day after I trip over a duffel bag full of cash
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nickthompson  



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 847
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adding power with nitrous and adding power with turbosome are two very different things. The nature of nitrous causes an extreme increase of heat. I'm aware turbos add heat too but that is not the primate function of turbos. Nitrous by it's self does not even burn it is a not flamable oxidizer. That means your running a higher quantity of O2 per fuel. It's very similar to what give nitro methane it's performance advantage. Some of the Diamond custom pistons with a ceramic coating would probably help but if you're going that route you might as well build power the old fashioned way as your going to be spending $900 on pistons. Nitrous on a Sportscar doesn't make much since because the goal is to power out of corners. If you hit the button that offer you'll be in trouble. If you want straight line performance get a fox body Mustang, those are cheap and easily modable.
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Noahs944  



Joined: 08 Dec 2015
Posts: 601
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Nick for supporting your arguments.
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11335
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
$2K proposition. If you can get it cheaper than that, you're either lucky or the technician is a hack.


$300 here. One of the best aluminum head specialists on the west coast.
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  • Shaggy (1980 931) - Got Boost?
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nickthompson  



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 847
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noahs944 wrote:
Thank you Nick for supporting your arguments.


I don't have a computer and typing that much difficult on a touch screen keyboard so I don't usually do it.
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11335
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:20 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie wants MORE POWER Reply with quote

mikeycrum14 wrote:
Looking to upgrade my NA 924. Five speed trans with stage 3 clutch (a previous owner thought it was a good idea). any ideas? looking for upgrades that are not to complicated or expensive for a amateur.


A question better asked before purchasing a toofah.
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mikeycrum14  



Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 108
Location: Juneau, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i was confused about whether it was all needing to be done at once (head rebuild + hot cam + cometic gasket). but ya i gotcha now. might do that swap this summer...
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mikeycrum14  



Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 108
Location: Juneau, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

which hot cam to buy?
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1981 924 - Alpine White
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Fresh tune up, stage 3 racing clutch, stock otherwise, 5 speed trans. - SOLD
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15465
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Remove intake and head
2. Do a basic head maintenance, consisting of new valve guide seals, and relapping the valves
3. Replace head gasket with .027" Cometic
4. Replace all other top-end gaskets
5. Put in a new cam

This one: http://garage.ideola.com/prod-EngineMods.html#Edelweiss

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mikeycrum14  



Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 108
Location: Juneau, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool. length of time this is gonna take?
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1981 924 - Alpine White
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Fresh tune up, stage 3 racing clutch, stock otherwise, 5 speed trans. - SOLD
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15465
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cams are in stock, although I need to order shims, so that will take about a week or so. Head gaskets are made to order, and typically require about 7-10 day turn around.

On the NA, you'll want to plan half-day for disassembly; half day or so for servicing the head; and half-day + for reassembly and bedding in the cam.
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1445
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeycrum14 wrote:
cool. length of time this is gonna take?


I think I could do it in 2 solid work days if everything went correctly but this isn't something you want to do fast and something that you will have to do meticulously clean and correct..

Relapping the valves you will have to be very careful not to get the diamond powder abraisive where it shouldn't be or you ruin it..
Then when you're done with that you will have to thourougly clean the head because that stuff will eat your engine if it gets in there..

You will have to do a very good job of cleaning the old HG off of the block for a good new sealing surface without getting the debris into the oil passeges, water passages, and cylinders.. I use a razor for this mostly..

And the head surface you will have to prepare, I lightly block sanded mine, people have different methods, but if you screw it up you could ruin it.

With the cam you will have to cross tighten the caps just right not to break them, and make sure you keep them in exactly the same order or you will ruin the head..

You will need a good torque wrench for the head bolts and cam cap bolts atleast, replace head studs with new, may need special tools to get the valves out or make them, might need a special tool for the guide seals..

This is careful tedius work that you can't rush and their are consequences for mistakes.. I think you will have some sort of break in regimen on the cam you will have to follow closely including adjusting the valves many times..

I think I'd do the job for $400 and consider that an excellent deal.. Shop prolly $1000-$1500..

I's not really a job for a mechanic noob but a noob can do it if they have the patience to learn the job and execute it properly, definitely not something you should be trying to do fast because careless mistakes in haste will cost you a lot..

$700 cam
$100 hg
$150 in studs and gaskets

$$?? Torque wrench, seal pullers, grinding compound, drill, parts washer/solvent, couple oil changes, depends on what you already have for tools/shop..

Are you going to put the $700 cam onto your old tappets? Have you checked their condition yet?

I think you are supposed to put a new cam on new tappets only but with the expence of tappets for these engines many may prefer to use old tappets in good condition, which I think usually works ok..
I wouldn't put that cam on anything less than used tappets in impeccable condition at the least, so if you have any that aren't 99% as perfect as used tappets get you should seek replacements..
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1445
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to see you post a thread about your car as a whole, with some pics and a general description of the projects it needs such as your ceiling, interior, body, heater, etc., what you are starting with and what you plan to do with the car..

What we thing you "should do" is really just theory without knowing more of the backstory of what you want to do, what you can afford to do, and what you are starting with..

I mean, if you've got a ton of money and your car is in premium shape, you might want to add lightweight tappets, pistons, and rods while you're in there, but if their is anything questionable about your CIS and ignition those things should really be sorted first before you throw more variables in there re engineering the top end of your engine..

I don't even know what year your car is..

For all I know it could be a 77 with an absolutely worthless head that is not worth using or a euro with already high compression..

Make a thread about your car, what you have, what you're working with, and put your exact car description in your signature so people can know exactly what car you are talking about whenever you say anything like..

77.5 924 NA
or
1983 942 NA euro
or
81 NA 5-lug
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mikeycrum14  



Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 108
Location: Juneau, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ill get a thread going soon... basically it is a stock left hand drive 924 with roughly 43k miles. approximated after the odo stopped and I had to fix the little red gear and wind it up some.
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1981 924 - Alpine White
First car!
Fresh tune up, stage 3 racing clutch, stock otherwise, 5 speed trans. - SOLD
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