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Newbie wants MORE POWER
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15511
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
Head work is not cheap. My guy in Delevan WI has reasonable rates, but even then, a fully re-done head (valves, guides, re-worked seats, skim cut, and mild port and polish) is a $2K proposition. If you can get it cheaper than that, you're either lucky or the technician is a hack.

One of the big issues with our heads is that the valve guides are a unique size and NOBODY has the correct tooling to work on them. Only places that have specifically done a 924 2.0L head before will have the right tooling. My guy in Delevan had to make his before he could work on my head. Same thing happened to me in Detroit, where there's an engine builder on every corner.

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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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mikeycrum14  



Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 114
Location: Juneau, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cant I just buy a new valve guide set and put them in?... I am trying to find a cheaper "more power" solution to my stock 924 base.
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1981 924 - Alpine White
First car!
Fresh tune up, stage 3 racing clutch, stock otherwise, 5 speed trans. - SOLD
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15511
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeycrum14 wrote:
cant I just buy a new valve guide set and put them in?

No. The valve guides are pressed into the head, and you need a special bit and chuck to press them out without damaging the soft aluminum head and ruining the guide bores for the new guides to follow.
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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mikeycrum14  



Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 114
Location: Juneau, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you have been super helpful, I don't think im ready to spend that kind of money on my first car right off the bat. what do you suggest as a cheaper way to go faster faster?
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1981 924 - Alpine White
First car!
Fresh tune up, stage 3 racing clutch, stock otherwise, 5 speed trans. - SOLD
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15511
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeycrum14 wrote:
I am trying to find a cheaper "more power" solution to my stock 924 base.


1. Define cheap.
2. I already defined an $800 solution for you that will increase your HP by 15-20% (hot cam + Cometic gasket)

That's about as cheap as it gets with this motor. Unless you want to do Nitrous, which is not advisable on a motor of questionable provenance.
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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Noahs944  



Joined: 08 Dec 2015
Posts: 726
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeycrum14 wrote:
you have been super helpful, I don't think im ready to spend that kind of money on my first car right off the bat. what do you suggest as a cheaper way to go faster faster?


buy a honda civic
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nickthompson  



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 859
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
mikeycrum14 wrote:
I am trying to find a cheaper "more power" solution to my stock 924 base.


1. Define cheap.
2. I already defined an $800 solution for you that will increase your HP by 15-20% (hot cam + Cometic gasket)

That's about as cheap as it gets with this motor. Unless you want to do Nitrous, which is not advisable on a motor of questionable provenance.


That's a nice way to say nitrous is stupid.
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Noahs944  



Joined: 08 Dec 2015
Posts: 726
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"stupid"?

Like the American aircraft engineers who integrated it into some expensive aircrafts that were depended upon to save lives in WW2?

Stupid, eh?


Effective... fast to assemble... sometimes inconvenient... potentially disastrous in the hands of people who don't research and take precautions, sure. Not stupid though.
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nickthompson  



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 859
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noahs944 wrote:
"stupid"?

Like the American aircraft engineers who integrated it into some expensive aircrafts that were depended upon to save lives in WW2?

Stupid, eh?


Effective... fast to assemble... sometimes inconvenient... potentially disastrous in the hands of people who don't research and take precautions, sure. Not stupid though.


As previously stated if you have a forged bottom end engine built to run nitrous in a drag racing environment it's fine. Otherwise it's stupid and creates tremendous wear on your engine.
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15511
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nickthompson wrote:
Otherwise it's stupid


There are other applications for Nitrous.

You might like what I'm cooking up for DUSTY. Bwahahaha.
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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nickthompson  



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 859
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
nickthompson wrote:
Otherwise it's stupid


There are other applications for Nitrous.

You might like what I'm cooking up for DUSTY. Bwahahaha.


What I like about Dusty is the wheels. I want those on my car.
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Noahs944  



Joined: 08 Dec 2015
Posts: 726
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the 924 n/a can't handle 35 horsepower of boost in stock form... well, that says a lot about the quality of components these cars are made of... since just about every other car on the planet could handle it.

Nicky, I'm walking away from this conversation because I don't feel like I have someone competent enough to spar with (based on your previous arguments). A bit disappointing.


Last edited by Noahs944 on Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fifty50Plus  



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 1008
Location: Washington DC area

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My machinist threads the inside of the guides and pulls them out without any damage on all the different Porsche heads I give him. Problem with the NA 924 is that they don't breath well regardless of guide size.
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1979 924 NA race car
1982 924 NA race car - Sold
1982 924 Turbo almost a PoS
1981 924 Turbo a real PoS, new engine
1982 924 Turbo nice body, blown engine
1972 911 E race car - going to Vintage
Various 944s to become IT-S race car
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15511
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fifty50Plus wrote:
My machinist threads the inside of the guides and pulls them out without any damage on all the different Porsche heads I give him. Problem with the NA 924 is that they don't breath well regardless of guide size.

Yeah, but how does he put the new ones back in? Gotta have a special bit for that.
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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nickthompson  



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 859
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noahs944 wrote:
If the 924 n/a can't handle 35 horsepower of boost in stock form... well, that says a lot about the quality of components these cars are made of... since just about every other car on the planet could handle it.

Nicky, I'm walking away from this conversation because I don't feel like I have someone competent enough to spar with (based on your previous arguments). A bit disappointing.


The guy that wants to put headers sticking out the top of his hood calling someone a mental midget. That's laughable.


Last edited by nickthompson on Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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