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Adding sensors and gauges without adding a gauge pod.
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Johann  



Joined: 07 Aug 2016
Posts: 160
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:31 am    Post subject: Adding sensors and gauges without adding a gauge pod. Reply with quote

I would like to get more information from my car without adding gauge pods and have been playing with a couple of ideas. However the old interwebs is not really providing me with much info.

I want to add information on:
- Boost
- Vacuum
- Fuel pressure
- Oil temperature

I could use your help and advice on this. Here is what i am thinking.

- Find a 951 Tach and somehow build it into the the housing for a 924
- Remove the inner workings from a VDO boost gauge and Frankenstein this into a 924 tachometer. This requires an custome gauge face.
- Source sensors that have bluetooth functionality and related apps

Any experience in this area is appreciated.
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1448
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the same thought process. Wanted more safety info but did not want gauges making a period 924 looking like a modern ricer. First a guage or two went into a radio blanking plate. Then two gauges into a pod fascia in the dash speaker area (I'll probably sell this as it's not used now). Finally went with the Zeitronix. Whilst not ideal. Whilst not as hidden as some gauges. Being old school display it does feel right in the car. Mine covers boost, EGT, intake temperature and AFR which I deemed the most important info on an increased boost car. The Zeitronix can display any sender/info you want to use. It can also be expanded with additional display. Could hide some gauges in the glove box for info not so important on all drives? The Zeitronix can also datalog for later analysis.
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15462
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What gauges do you have now? Do you have A/C? Clock?

If you have A/C, this is a cool idea (pardon the pun) for putting the a/c fan speed knob into the cigarette lighter location:


If you don't have A/C, I'm guessing you have oil pressure, volt meter, and clock.

Do you need the clock?

Do you need/want the volt meter?

Do you have a radio?

If you don't want or need the radio, the obvious choice is a blanking plate there which can support up to three gauges.

I've seen some people use a hole saw to cut an opening in the dash directly between the center dual vents and the glove box, as in this photo:


If you want to stay analog, get a VDO boost/vac combo gauge like this one:


I don't think VDO make a fuel pressure gauge with sufficient range to cover the CIS system. Why do you think you need fuel pressure in the cockpit?

VDO make a range of oil pressure gauges in US or metric, with different ranges, all available in the cockpit or black series, which are near perfect match for oem gauges.
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15462
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, see this thread for raceboy's tutorial on creating a
924 Carrera GTS replica tach/boost gauge
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15462
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thread on in-cockpit CIS fuel pressure gauge:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/516270-dash-fuel-pressure-gauge-cis.html
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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Johann  



Joined: 07 Aug 2016
Posts: 160
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys!

Here is my dash


@Dan, I have a dealership fitted aircon so my control knobs are here




I might be prepared to let the clock and voltmeter go, I'll have a look at some gauge options when I am at Techno Classica this year.

@Steve, Zeitronix is going in the right direction, but it's too modern/tuner for my liking.

I was hoping there are gauges on the market with fully customisable screens like you get on smartwatches. So basically a full TFT display like you get on the new Porsches with the ability to mimic multiple gauges.

Alternatively I was hoping to find sensors connected to som form of command module that can transmit measurements via bluetooth so that you can follow it on an app.
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15462
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see your center speaker and cover are gone. Are you opposed to something like this?

http://garage.ideola.com/prod-Appearance.html#CDGP

Available with either straight or angled binnacles.
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1418
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johann wrote:

Alternatively I was hoping to find sensors connected to som form of command module that can transmit measurements via bluetooth so that you can follow it on an app.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7JOLBSakIk&feature=youtu.be
http://www.tunerstudio.com/index.php/shadowdashmsmenu


You could use a megasquirt to connect to all of your sensors and then bluetooth whatever gauges you can imagine sensors for to your choice of android device..

And then you can also use it for logging, boost control, knock sensing, meth injection, N2O, take over your control pressure, whatever you want..

Bluetooth to RS232 Adapter $60
Microsquirt $340
Sensors, usb adapter, wires and connectors, $$??

$500ish + your android dashboard device..
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1980 931S LSD FMIC hobby - 01 RS25 coupe - 95 M3 coupe
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Johann  



Joined: 07 Aug 2016
Posts: 160
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Fasteddie, that looks very interesting. I have been looking at the frankenCIS, so maybe this is the route I need to take. For now this is still just ideas I am playing with, but good to know what I want is possible

@Dan, that foto was taken while I was installing my radio and fixing my odometer. I popped of the speaker cover to clean it and see if it wasn't possible to make some sort of phone holder in the position. Still something I am toying with, but I first need to invest in a 3D printer
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1448
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johann

Mount a phone or tablet under the speaker grill. Put some hinges on the grill and pop it open when you want to see the data, shut it when you don't.
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
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Johann  



Joined: 07 Aug 2016
Posts: 160
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooh, I like that idea
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15462
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrera RSR wrote:
Mount a phone or tablet under the speaker grill. Put some hinges on the grill and pop it open when you want to see the data, shut it when you don't.

This idea has potential
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8036
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note also that some modern round-style gauges allow more than one bit of information to be displayed in one gauge.

But for sure, an Android-type display tablet will be ideal; mimics what we do with race dashes, but prettier and often more flexible for display style/content.

I actually am about to replace the dash currently in my racecar, due to visibility/readability issues...
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1448
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

924RACR wrote:
Note also that some modern round-style gauges allow more than one bit of information to be displayed in one gauge.


True, the Zeironix gauge can toggle between up to 4(?) different inputs. You can also mount 2 (maybe more?) in serial for more data. I guess others do this but I only know what I know briefly looking at this system.

I went for the Zeitronix/Phormula boxes and mounting them on the dash as I did in 'homage' to the rally trip computers back in the day. It also looked more OK when I had the race cage and seats in. I wouldn't lose it now. Whilst you only look at the data most when tuning in the early days, it is good to keep an odd eye on the data when spanking the car. If the gauges are in the lower console or radio spot, its very hard to cast am eye on them whilst driving, which is why I lifted them up higher. The dash speaker area is far easier, other than the main binnacle.
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15462
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best "eye position" in my opinion is the A-pillar. Much easier to pick up queues in peripheral vision than in the center console or speaker grill location. But some people don't like that look (too ricer?).
_________________
15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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