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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8167
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be careful with that car..the E36 is a death box when it comes to crashes.
Its body collapses without absorbing too much energy and effects on the people inside are usually worse than most other cars.
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1934
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes I wonder how much Chevy powered 951 I could trade it for..
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1973
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Freddie, please could you give me a quick summary of parts you have used for your e-cis / V8 set up. I've followed your thread buts its so long and you've changed so much during the build, just wondering if you could summarise the final set up, any hints and tips and watch outs.

I have had some recent success with my CIS set up and just had a set back trying to eak out the most of the 931 fuel head, WUR and boost switch. Morghen and Cedric are suggesting I should review your e-cis and consider upgrading to V8 fueling. Told me to absorb your set up more.

My first consideration is the electronic fuel control with my current set up whilst I research and collate the V8 parts needed to swap out and fabricate the installation. Want to maybe do this later this year and keep my car on the road this Summer/Autumn.

Thanks in advance
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1934
Location: MI

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... Ok..

First off the FD is from Mercedes 420/560 V8 cars from the late 80's/early 90's..
They will have the black DPR box on them....

Try to get one with all of the Merc injector lines to use to make your new ones, and I spliced them 8-2-4 with stainless compression Tees, 3mm iirc, from ebay..
Or make your injector lines however you wish if you can figure out how to make them with the right ends from scratch..

You will also need the fuel pressure regulator from the Merc, it has an external fuel pressure regulator instead of the pop off valve like the 931 has.. It goes on the return line from the FD to the tank, probably anywhere is fine.. Runs @ 100psi..

Uses no WUR at all.. You could plumb it to your CSV if you want, but I didn't..

I also used the Merc upper AFM housing and made an adapter plate to get it to boly to the original 931 lower AFM housing, in the stock location, and on the stock 931 mounts.. So it's all the same as a 931 from the lower AFM to the turbo..

You already have your FD relocated so maybe you could just use the whole Merc AFM housing and mount/plumb it as you wish.. Might be real easy for you...

That's really about it other than figuring out how to put an airfilter on it.. However you want..

You will need a FrankenCIS DPR Module from http://www.frankencis.com/FrankenCIS..
That goes in between the MS and the DPR on the FD to turn injector signals into a +/- DC current to control the DPR..

Only works on Microsquirt so no MS3 or whatever..

The rest of the megasquirt is the same as any other EFI install for all the sensors and stuff you can use.. It only uses the MS injector outs to control the DPR..




That's about it really.. Just figure out how to stick the thing under the hood and connect the hoses in the right order..

It also has the airplate position sensor on it, but it's not needed for anything..

This is the main thread for the system really... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/820323-digital-wur-plus-frankencis.html

And the Reanimotion guy is the inventor and the guy to talk to..

He runs the same Merc FD as me on his 928..
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1973
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you. Very much appreciated
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1976
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess you could use the microsquirt closed loop boost controller aswell if you would like to do any custom made boost curves.
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1934
Location: MI

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem.. Any specific questions, ask away..

And yes, the microsquirt will still do everything else it usually would..

It'll still spray meth, no2, boost control, anti-lag, flat foot shifting, rad fans, logging, etc..
Because CIS-E can do complete fuel cut like you would with efi, no matter how much air is flowing/plate position, it can do those things....

I eventually want to do anti-lag, just to make a lot of noise really..

Chevy LS coils cop/coil near plug should be real easy to do..
Need to figure out some sort of crank pickup though..
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1934
Location: MI

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean.. It would be nice if I wasn't the only one doing this.. So I can learn from others too..

Pretty sure mine is the only Turbo car in the world running a FrankenCIS CIS-E V8 distributor setup..

But... EFI is probably/maybe better/easier/cheaper/more well proven..
Unless you want a V8 distributor under your hood..
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1973
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie313 wrote:

But... EFI is probably/maybe better/easier/cheaper/more well proven..


This is my debate right now. I have had some romantic attraction to keep stock CIS with some small bolt on solutions to improve it. Had many ECU/EFi discussions and I have been told more than once I should go that route. Maybe I should have? But when you start a project you go either in baby steps or all out modding. For fuel and ignition I went baby steps. Add the cost of this up and I am probably well over the cost of an expensive standalone ecu / EFi solution. But that's many years spending in baby steps and not one big outlay.

I should be happy with my recent 240rwhp result, and I am. But you always want to try for a little more.... the power devil is always on your shoulder
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1934
Location: MI

PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know..

CIS may have some advantages, like better fuel atomization...

I'll say mine works pretty good.. Real controllable and predictable/repeatable..

My life is a bit crazy right now so I haven't been messing with my 931.. Drove it a couple times though and it ran just the same as it did last fall.. So it still works..
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1934
Location: MI

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Accidentally buried my boost gauge somewhere well past 20 today..
AFRs were great, and it was fun, so I kept doing it.. Many times..
Blew some boost pipe somewhere and got a heck of a boost leak..
Had to baby it the rest of the way to the party and back..
Haven't even looked yet..

I should not do this anymore, but I probably will, and want to log it..
Heh..

I didn't realize that what I did would make it boost that much, but it did..
Might uh.. Back it down a bit before I try some more...

I didn't even realize at first because I was staring at AFR, but then noticed the boost gauge was pointed like almost straight down.. Pulls a lot..
Figured I already did it like 3 times, so did it a couple more times, and made a leak..


NO!!
I want the car to last the rest of the summer so I SHOULD NOT!!
BAD!!


The boost is there, the fuel is there.. Had like 10.8 @ prolly 25psi while it held, lol.. <bad
But plenty of fuel and it was ON..

How do you know when to stop or how to resist temptation?

Have to log it atleast once or twice right?
You know, to prove the fuel is there.. Yeah..

Have been having trouble getting more than like 16 with top port pressure, not enough pressure, but I greatly reduced the volume of air under pressure above the top port, and it makes it boost a lot more than I expected..
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8167
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just drive safely and enjoy.
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 836
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie...I too would like to go this route at some point in the near future once I feel its needed. 10 years ago I just wanted efi but now I also have those romantic feelings. CarreraRSR already has me wanting to keep CSI and you trampled a new path for us. Thanks for the help and guidance

Also your sentences are strange.. 931 and 25psi are normally only uttered in ancient GTR race accounts or somebody dreaming here
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1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1934
Location: MI

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ordered a bunch of supposedly 2", 2.5", and 3" T-bolts..

None were big enough to fit my IC flanges or my TB flanges, so I replaced all my hose clamps except those 4..

Took for test runs, it was loving 20 psi.. I kept it there..

Took a girl out for food in the next town over, blew another hose on my way back beating someone off a stop light..
Was kinda embarrasing pulling over right after I got him.. Oh well..

Limped home exremely rich.. Bad boost leak this time..

Pretty sure I blew a connection with a T-bolt on it, but it was dark so not real sure yet..

Hoses are not liking to stay on at 20..

Will fix again eventually sometime today and try again...

And finally LOG it... Maybe.. If my hoses will stay on long enough..


Blowoff sounds are amazing at 20..

Really wanna log and see my post IC temps.. I have no idea if my turbo is worth a crap at these pressures..

Haven't even touched my tune for this and it's solid in the mid 10's AFR at 20+ psi..
Might could take a couple points of fuel out actually.. It goes down to like 10.4 and that's a bit much I think..

I'm going to get a good log or 5 and then stop this crap before I have to do another HG job..


morghen wrote:
Just drive safely and enjoy.


I'm not much of a 100mph guy.. I rarely pull past like 85 ish..
I'm not really into high speed.. Just the pull.. And corners..

Only 3rd and 4th are useful for full power really.. And in 3rd it better already be pointed straight.. I'm still not on very good sticky tires..
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1934
Location: MI

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found it..

Blew a T shaped rip out of my first hose off of the comp housing.. Directly where the compressed air first blasts onto a hose.. Could be heat related, but it was just some ancient junkyard hose..

Big hole, can fit like 3-4 fingers in it..

Now to find another hose with the same "S" shape in it..
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