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My 931 and futur upgrade
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kaneda06  



Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 6
Location: Cannes (france)

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:28 am    Post subject: My 931 and futur upgrade Reply with quote

Hello guys my name is Yves from France ! 37 years old
And last year i realized old dream! Buy a 931! !!
Before i have had Porsche 944 , Porsche 2l and Porsche 924S

So it's 1980 S1 (170 power) with several option (A/C, Targa, limit slip differential, électrique Windows and more)


I finish the big révision oil engine and transmission, all filter and belt, spark plug, Clutch transmitter / receptor,

Next time clutch, revision turbo, and bushing gear shift...... byebye my moneys

















And why not a upgrade for have 200 power and i have so many question.....
Because in France is very difficult To have a information , don't have any 931


I would change wasgate spring but i don't know if i order 0.8 ou 1bar
Porsche spring 930 and 931 is the same ?
If i install 0.8 bar how many hp i will have
And with 1 bar ?

Is it necessairy to install intercooler ( ideola's garage top mount charge cooler) ?

If i install ideola's garage i should be modified hood?


thank you and sorry for my english

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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1448
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice car in fantastic condition. Far too nice to modify. Leave it alone and enjoy it as it is. If you want more power, buy a 944 turbo
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
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kaneda06  



Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 6
Location: Cannes (france)

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:10 pm    Post subject: .. Reply with quote

Thank you

Lol no no no i keep my 931

I agree with you it's for that i want small upgrade i think just change spring but i don't know if 0.8 or 1 bar

So i need you for choice
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7674
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 bar wont work for that car without an intercooler. It will just destroy the engine at some point.

To get a bit more power you can do the following:

1. Tune the ignition advance closer to the knock limit. For this, you need a knock sensing device and a 13mm wrench. Only use 98 or 100oct fuel and i'm sure there is a bit more power to be extracted from the ignition advance.


2. Install methanol/water injection and make the boost 0.8bar. If done right, this modification is seamless and allows for a bit more boost...but you must always make sure that you have enough water+methanol otherwise you risk destroying the engine without propper intake temperature control.

I plan to add a swift water/meth injection on my 931 in the future, not only for more power but also for longevity.
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kaneda06  



Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 6
Location: Cannes (france)

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:54 pm    Post subject: ........ Reply with quote

Thank you !!!


I Forget 1 bar spring lol

ok i change ignition advanced and use 98 only and octane booster when i go track day

So if i change spring for spring 0.8 it's dangerous for the engine without intercooler ?
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7674
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In some hot summer days...yes.
0.8 bar, advanced ignition closer to the knock limit and water/meth injection should get you 200hp.

I must be a really slow driver but for me, my stock 931 (maybe different pistons and advanced ignition) is fast enough.
My 1.1bar boosted other 924 turbo is too fast for road use.
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1448
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing as you are in Cannes with 30deg+++ all Summer, increasing boost without any thermal management of air intake will kill your engine. At 1bar the post turbo air temps will be over 120deg and will cause a lot of detonation and kill the engine. Even a small increase in boost can have problems.

Fitting a bolt on IC or chargecooler with no other bodywork mods is possible. But you would need S2 intake and throttle body to install ideolas charge cooler or Carrera GT intercooler. Both these will get you closer to 200bhp.

To increase boost use a manual boost controller such as Jon Mitchell Garrage's from UK. This makes your current wastegate dual port and can slowly increase boost, maybe 0.8bar with no IC, but no more

If you increase boost use Octane Booster in the fuel, even if using 98-99RoN just to be on the safe side. Get a boost and AFR gauge to monitor engine. Even a knock sensor would help.

But all this is a slippery slope and that 931 is just too nice to mess up. The values of original 931's in EU are rising fast. Don't be tempted to mess with it too much!
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
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Cédric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1588
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should first check what turbo you have. If you dont have the K2664 compressor then that is a god upgrade for top end power. But I would be very hesitant to raise the power on a s1 engine, especially with more aggressive timing.

If you want to keep the engine completely standard looking the the water/meth injection that morghen talks about is the only solution. But if going this route I would be sure that I have the biggest available compressor (2664) anyway.


Myself I want to keep the engine bay looking as standard as possible, Im planning on going the route that fasteddie went

His solution looks like this, but that requires a different compressor side that is easier to rotate, and a large bit of extra work:


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Cédric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1588
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: ........ Reply with quote

kaneda06 wrote:
Thank you !!!


I Forget 1 bar spring lol

ok i change ignition advanced and use 98 only and octane booster when i go track day

So if i change spring for spring 0.8 it's dangerous for the engine without intercooler ?


Btw, you should never run anything lower than 98oct, you will get in troubble !
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´80 924 Turbo
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peterld  



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 658
Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yves......what a beautiful car!
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kaneda06  



Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 6
Location: Cannes (france)

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:26 pm    Post subject: ....... Reply with quote

Thank you very much !!!


I change igniton advanced , install boost manual and 0.70/0.8 max!
0.75 max summer and 0.8 max winter
And use octan booster when i use boost manual

Install turbo boost gauge, Afr gauge , and oil temperature gauge for check

Maybe the best upgrade is handling (install bilstein, breakepad racing and bushing )

Now waiting moneys for repair and small uograde
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peterld  



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 658
Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now you are on the right track!
Improving the already good handling and braking for track days is the key.

Bilstein front strut inserts and rear shockers - yes!
More aggressive pads for the front brakes (NOT full race) - yes!
Harder bushing material everywhere (NOT solid) - yes!
Dismantle all wheel bearings, repack/replace and set to close tolerance to eliminate brake knock-off.
Replace brake fluid with quality high temperature fluid - rebuild brake calipers if necessary.
Do a spanner check of the whole vehicle - check every nut and bolt!
Check every hose for air or water leaks
Quality front and rear suspension geometry alignment.

Then drive like you just stole it! Enjoy!
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1448
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterld wrote:

Then drive like you just stole it! Enjoy!


Whilst I am a fan of modifying and I did just that with mine, I just think this is far too nice a car to mess with A rare S1 in Petrol Blue in what looks to be in the photos to be great car. Mine needed work from the start, hence the modifying route. If I had a car like Yves, I'd want it totally factory fresh and stock and keep it for high days and holidays. Not ragging around a track. But I may be in the minority here
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
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kaneda06  



Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 6
Location: Cannes (france)

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:45 am    Post subject: ........ Reply with quote

Carrera RSR a big part of me think like you

I love car stock and when i talk about trackday it's not for compétition or fight against the clock
It's for feel the car limit (not max limit lol) , learn sport drive my car because on the road is dangerous and many police check speed......

Change by bilstein and only bilstein because it's option Porsche
When i talk change bushing it's new (Porsche stock bushing)

Question very important if i install manual contrôl boost if i want back stock it's possible ? It's not irréversible ??
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1448
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manual boost controller using the stock waste gate as dual port is bolt on/off. When in minimum setting it will be stock 0.65-0.7 bar. Only increases when you turn the air valve and bleed counter pressure in to top port. Pretty simple to install and control. But you must have a boost gauge to check pressure is not too high.

I used this one. http://www.jmgshop.com/9xx-pro-manual-boost-controller-engine-mounted-30-p.asp The feed comes off the intake manifold and the post air regulator end goes to the top port of the waste gate with a banjo fitting and banjo bolt.
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
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